A case for going entirely "mirrorless"?

Discussion in 'Fuji X-Mount Cameras' started by lhuhn, Jun 30, 2014.

  1. lhuhn

    lhuhn FujiXspot Rookie

    Aug 9, 2013
    I have a XPro-1 that I recently purchased for travel and street photography and am considering adding a TX-1 to my bag as well. My question is that I am reluctant to give up my Cannon 5d M1 and lenses because I am not sure I will be happy going entirely "mirrorless", but I can't justify or can I afford to have both. I am sure others have gone through the same decision process, so I curious to hear your thoughts on this move. My photographic interests are pretty wide ranging.
  2. macjim

    macjim FujiXspot Regular

    Feb 1, 2013
    Have you thought about hiring the X-T1 and lenses to test it out? Doing that will let you find out if it indeed could replace your Canon.

    Sent from my iPhone using FujiXspot
  3. lhuhn

    lhuhn FujiXspot Rookie

    Aug 9, 2013
    That is a good thought but there isn't anywhere in May area that rents camera gear.
  4. Lightmancer

    Lightmancer Super Moderator Subscribing Member

    Feb 2, 2013
    Sunny Frimley
    Bill Palmer
    So... I bought my X-E1 a couple of years ago with the money liquidated from my Nikon D700 and I have not looked back. Whilst it is true that a good big 'un will always beat a good little 'un in the real world the "difference" is slight at worst.

    Today I run an X-Pro 1 alongside an X-T1; the X-Pro is for street, travel and general photography, with the 23, 35 and 56mm lens, the X-T is for macro, action, sports and wildlife with a 50mm Olympus OM Macro, the 18-55 and 55-200mm zooms and a 400mm Tokina. The 14 and 27mm "float" between the two "cores" as needed.

    I am completely happy with these set-ups - there isn't much I can't tackle with them. Part of the secret is of course the lenses - high quality, sharp, light and compatible with both the "rangefinder" and "DSLR".

    My advice - think about what is important to you, and go for it!
    • Like Like x 1
  5. Biro

    Biro Super Moderator Subscribing Member

    Feb 1, 2013
    Jersey Shore
    I keep thinking about going all mirrorless. Lord knows I have a good amount of mirrorless gear (micro four-thirds and Fuji - not counting compacts). But it took me many years to build my Pentax lens collection and the DSLRs (a K-5 and K-5IIs) are still superior to my other gear when shooting action. Plus, if I sell off all my Pentax gear, I know there'll be no going back. I simply won't have the money. It'll happen eventually; the X-T1 is getting very close. But I just can't bring myself to do it - yet. Besides, my Pentax bodies aren't that big by DSLR standards.
  6. BobbyT

    BobbyT Super Moderator Subscribing Member

    Dec 31, 2013
    Louisville, Ky
    Bobby Tingle
    I can say that I went all in with Mirrorless at the beginning of the year from a Canon 1D3/1Ds2 kit. I have not looked back nor do I have any regrets.
  7. Phoenix

    Phoenix Ronin-13 Subscribing Member

    Jan 31, 2013
    Melbourne, Australia
    As with Bill, I am a big proponent on the “what is important to you” mentality, if you have spent a lot of time and funds getting your lens set up together for a camera system (e.g. micro four thirds, DSLR, mirrorless) it would be hard to migrate into another system without feeling any apprehension. A good compromise is to keep both systems, provided of course that you can sustain both systems.

    Both systems will have its pros and cons, and this will affect everyone in varying degrees (what might be a deal breaker for me, could be quite minor for you). There are numerous reviews and comparisons online (however I do agree with what macjim said, I think its better to test it out in real life if permitting) just be open minded and be honest with yourself with what is important to you as whichever way you go dSLR or mirrorless there is always going to be a trade-off.

    Personally, I have nothing against dSLRs, I think they’re great tools but I feel imho that they have reached a glass ceiling as opposed to mirrorless cameras which still has so much room for growth and progress. i.e There was an argument in the past that mirrorless cameras had limited lens selection, that’s really not the case these days. Some people also said that mirrorless cameras were slow to focus, but look at the Olympus EM-5, Fuji XT-1. There was also the argument regarding sensor size, then Sony release the A7. All of these in the span of 5 years or less, meanwhile there really hasn’t been a very significant change in dSLRs in that timeframe (maybe adding another a couple more focus points, rearranging the buttons, etc..)

    Just my 2 cents.
    • Like Like x 1
  8. kaito

    kaito FujiXspot Regular

    May 12, 2014
    Wiltshire UK
    I'm sure this is a subject that many of us have considered, not least myself.

    Only 18 months ago I stepped up from a D80 to a D7000, an excellent camera with bells and whistle that I have yet to discover. But the sad truth is, in 18 months I've only shot 650 frames. 2 small children, wife and home, busy work schedule. As great a camera as it is, it's also a fair size and weight, something that goes against it when considering taking it on the occasional day out. We all know how the Fujifilm X series compare here. In 2 months, my XE2 has already had more use than the Nikon, the quality of the images is excellent, as are Fuji lenses and X series bodies.

    If I were shooting sport or studio or weddings I'd keep the D7000. These days I'm a hobbyist and perhaps it's time to admit that lugging around a large DSLR kit is no longer for me.

    With the cash from selling the D7000 I'd be able to pick up a flat XF27mm, now there's a thought.

    But I might just keep the Nikon 18-135, just in case
  9. Nic

    Nic FujiXspot Regular

    Feb 5, 2013
    Brisbane, Australia
    What is it that you think that mirrorless cameras can't do, that your 5D can do?
  10. flysurfer

    flysurfer X-Pert

    Feb 1, 2013
    Rico Pfirstinger
    There are plenty of things a MILC can do that a DLSR can't do. I have made a list of pros and cons for my workshops, and the pro list is much longer (and contains stuff that is more important to me).

    Canon DSLRs are a no-go for me, as this brand is still using outdated non-ISOless sensor technology. Personally, I refuse to work with cameras that aren't ISOless. Luckily, ISOless sensors have made their way into many cameras, not just from Fuji, but also from Leica, Nikon, Pentax, Ricoh, Olympus, Sony and a few more. So there's now plenty of choice out there. Good times. :)
  11. f2bthere

    f2bthere FujiXspot Regular

    Jul 29, 2014
    As I found that I didn't need the DSLR for a given task, I would sell off what was associated with that task and get what I needed in smaller gear till I had eliminated all the SLR stuff. That might or might not work for you, depending on the tasks.

    If you have a professional camera store, they probably rent (hire) gear. If you live in the USA, there are online places that can ship you rental gear. If you only use the DSLR for one thing a year, or hold onto it "just in case," you could sell it off and just rent for those rare occasions.

    It all comes down to figuring out what your photographic "tasks" are and determining if you can do them as well or better (or well enough) with your set of gear.
  12. Unlearn

    Unlearn FujiXspot Rookie

    Sep 25, 2014
    I'm almost in the same boat, having a Nikon FX DSLR and Fuji X-T1, each with a couple of lenses. I decided for myself (and my wife) that I could not afford to sustain both systems and am now pondering about what to do.

    For me it's not a simple thing to say "What camera is better suited to my tasks?", because I'm no pro, but an amateur with wide photographic interests. What speaks for the X-T1? I just love how it handles, it dials and all the stuff! I also love the weigh and especially the lenses. Also, I feel the X-T1 is just more modern and whenever I get back to the Nikon it feels old (even though it's just 2 years). And the Fuji support is way superior to Nikon's.

    What's in favor of the Nikon? I trust the Nikon more in critical situations, like AF performance in low light or focus tracking. Nikon RAWs are also better supported in Lightroom, which always seems to lose some details while processing. The Nikon also has a far better dynamic range, even though the X-T1 is not bad here either. On the other side, with the Nikon I would always fear the the lenses are just not as good (at least in my price range of used lenses of max 1000€ atm) and/or their weight is way too high.

    I would really prefer to have just one system, sell the other one and buy extra lenses for the money. I already have both systems, so I know each ones pros and cons. And I know that my interests are quite wide (macro, portraits, landscape, action), so that no camera seems to be a perfect fit for me.

    @flysurfer: Will there be another X workshop this year, other than the 3 day one? Three days is just to long for me to justify with my family. ;) My thought is that maybe your workshop will show me how to improve myself with the X-T1 and trust it more even in critical situations...

    To the OP: Did you already make a decision? How did it turn out?
    • Like Like x 1
  13. flysurfer

    flysurfer X-Pert

    Feb 1, 2013
    Rico Pfirstinger
    I will try to offer another 1 day workshop in Schwabach/Nuremberg.

    There's also one spot left for the 3-day workshop beginning on 3OCT.
  14. Unlearn

    Unlearn FujiXspot Rookie

    Sep 25, 2014
    While I'd love to go to the 3 day workshop, my wife will probably object due to having a newborn at home. ;) I'd prefer a one day workshop covering the most advanced topics... :)

    I don't want to hijack this thread, but I've created a list of pros and cons for myself.

    Pro DSLR:
    - More reliable AF: I can trust the DSLR more, especially in critical lighting (and if the AF still misses I will know it was my fault)
    - Retains more value: Nikon lenses lose value much slower he Fuji ones (may change in the future)
    - More macro options (compared the Fuji X lenses atm), as well as tele lenses

    Pro mirrorless:
    - Less weight: I will take the camera with me more often
    - Better handling: I like the controls better
    - Better build quality: May sound strange, but I feel the X-T1 is better built
    - Better AF in live view - for taking advantage of the tilt screen

    Not sure if that helps me, though... Thinking about it, my doubts about going entirely mirrorless really come down to reliability of the AF, since I shoot children and moving people a lot. I fear I would always have this thought at the back of my mind: "With a DSLR you would have gotten this shot!"
  15. flysurfer

    flysurfer X-Pert

    Feb 1, 2013
    Rico Pfirstinger
    Not really.
    DSLRs with dedicated AF sensors have inherent back and front focus issues, so if there's a miss, there's always a good chance that it is not your fault. Plus, these sensors aren't everwhere, so DSLR shooters still tend to use focus and reframe, which can totally ruin your focus accuracy.
  16. Unlearn

    Unlearn FujiXspot Rookie

    Sep 25, 2014
    The AF systems of DSLRs also have there drawbacks, that's true. I still shudder when thinking about the alignment I had to do with all the lenses. Still, once aligned the DSLR AF is (in the current generation) still faster, especially in low light. Don't you agree on this?

    Two more points:
    Pro DSLR: Better Lightroom support
    Pro Fuji: Firmware updates
  17. flysurfer

    flysurfer X-Pert

    Feb 1, 2013
    Rico Pfirstinger
    I don't. It totally depends on the cameras and lenses used. For example, my X100T can focus in the dark (meaning I can't see anything but black, but the camera works, w/o AF assist light).

    I'm also not aware what "better Lightroom support for DSLRs" is supposed to mean. Lightroom is third-party party software, and it supports a wide range of DSLRs and MILCs from all manufacturers. Support is equally good (or bad) for DSLR and MILC type cameras. As for Fuji, Lightroom offers the full range of film simulation and is capable of reading and processing Fuji Maker Notes RAW metadata.
    • Like Like x 1
  18. Unlearn

    Unlearn FujiXspot Rookie

    Sep 25, 2014
    Well, I don't have a X100T, but my X-T1 has way more problems than my D600 (which is not known for fast AF compared to other DSLRs) with similar lenses in darker light - and focus is usually slower. I don't say that is a fundamental problem of mirrorless cameras, but at the moment the AF systems that I know are still superior in DSLRs.

    I probably did not state it very well: With "Lightroom" support I mean RAW files from the X-Trans sensors seem to loose details when being processed, compared to the same shots with a Bayer sensor. Iridient ist way better here, but I only tried it out and didn't like other parts of it. That's not a deal breaker for me, though, as the print sizes I need are not large enough...
  19. entropic remnants

    entropic remnants Solving for X

    Jul 28, 2013
    I print 24"x36" from my X-E2 and X-M1 (in fact, I'm in a gallery show -- finally, lol -- opening tomorrow) and I use PhotoNinja for critical work. But I use it to create a 16-bit TIFF that is a "pseudo RAW" and don't try to get my final look out of it. That can often be done as a series of batches for shots done under similar conditions and it's not too bad. Then I can use Lightroom to get my final look, use plug-ins, etc.

    But I'm primarily an amateur art photographer so my fast-focus needs are minimal. Love the Fuji's and don't miss my Nikon D7000's at ALL.

    I DO wish Lightroom did a better job with X-Trans though, that's for sure!!!
  20. Unlearn

    Unlearn FujiXspot Rookie

    Sep 25, 2014
    Last night I finished reading Rico's book about the X-E2, and I got a couple of tips for the AF there (among others). I tried them out, especially increasing the AF point size. Then I used the 56 1.2 and compared it with the D600 and a 50 1.8... To my surprise the X-T1 did focus better than the D600! The Nikon hunted a lot and did not find focus in more cases then the Fuji. Also: The EVF allowed me to see much better in the darker areas than the optical viewfinder. In cases when both cameras did focus, the D600 was usually faster, though...

    Still, I was very surprised about this direct comparison. I may have to revise my opinion about the reliability of the AF system that I had held until now... Now I wonder if the newer AF systems (like the D750) would be even better in dim light... ;)