Another Fuji Full-Frame X camera rumor?

Discussion in 'Fuji X Series News and Rumors' started by jloden, Apr 3, 2014.

  1. jloden

    jloden FujiXspot Top Veteran

    708
    Mar 9, 2013
    Hunterdon County, NJ
    Jay
    http://www.fujirumors.com/new-source-x-pro2-will-feature-full-frame-sensor-3-5-ff-lenses/

    With previous iterations of the Fuji FF release rumors, I wasn't particularly interested/excited as I see the existing X-system as a different value proposition centered around the APS-C sensor size and accompanying lens size.

    But... now that I'm adapting M mount lenses to the X-T1 I just recently said elsewhere that an X-T1 in full frame would be perfect for me purely for adapted lenses (in all other respects I'm quite happy with the XF lenses). From the FujiRumors post:

    I'd still be pretty surprised if Fuji goes this route, but turns out to be true Fuji will have basically just taken a page straight out of my wishlist! Of course, they'll have done it AFTER I just re-arranged my lens and camera lineup all over again... :biggrin:
     
    • Like Like x 2
  2. CaptZoom

    CaptZoom FujiXspot Regular

    166
    Mar 22, 2013
    I would love to see anyone but especially Fuji make a camera with a sensor designed specifically for rangefinder type (read Leica) lenses. Leica is miles ahead in this regard, and I don't know if it makes sense for Fuji (or anyone else) to put in R&D to design a sensor based around a third company's (one which literally doesn't make up even 1% of the camera market) lenses. My M9s are up for sale, but the lenses are not. The lenses will be seeing use in the X-T.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  3. Ray Sachs

    Ray Sachs FujiXspot Veteran

    485
    Feb 1, 2013
    Near Philadephila
    I'd be surprised too, but not shocked. If they think there's enough market, it's probably worth a try.

    Having just come full circle on my own journey through the full frame world, I came to the conclusion that the glass that was really gonna give me the full benefit of full frame was gonna be too big and heavy for me to want to carry it. The smaller lenses I'd be willing to carry tended to be about a full stop or more slower than the really good stuff. And than really good APS-specific glass, which Fuji and Samsung seem to really be doing well at the moment. Fuji's APS glass isn't exactly small or light, but it's small and light ENOUGH that when paired with the pretty small bodies, it makes for a nice size kit. If Fuji tries to go full frame, I have no doubt that they'll source a great sensor and design wonderful bodies and make wonderful glass for it. But if that glass is as good and as fast as their APS offerings, it's gonna be BIG and heavy stuff. Certainly bigger and heavier than the APS lenses which already aren't exactly compact.

    If they make it small enough to market with small bodies and keep the overall kits reasonable, it's gonna be on the order of a stop slower than the APS glass they're making now. So you gain roughly a stop with the full frame sensor but then give most or all of it back with the lenses? At which point the overall benefit is somewhere between small and negligible. Yeah, they'll be a bit more DR, but it's not like current (let alone future) APS sensors are hurting in the DR department! So limited benefit probably for a good deal more money.

    If they go with really top fast glass, it'll be interesting, but I'm guessing they're into a size and weight and price range that's gonna have to pull a very different audience than is currently going ga-ga over their APS stuff.

    So, I'm dubious.... But every time there's a major development in the camera industry, it's damn sure something I'd never have thought of! So I don't put anything past the folks who are designing and selling this stuff....

    -Ray
     
    • Like Like x 2
  4. ean10775

    ean10775 FujiXspot Top Veteran

    886
    Feb 13, 2013
    Cleveland, OH
    Eric
    If a Fuji FF camera means new lenses that are going to have to be larger to match the performance of the XF lenses, I wouldn't be interested. Depending on what you are looking for, I really think that Fuji, Olympus and Panasonic have done very well to maximize performance in relation to size and weight when it comes to both bodies and especially lenses (though some of the faster zooms push the boundaries of giving up the size advantage mirrorless cameras offer in my opinion). We're regularly seeing f1.2, f1.4 adn f1.8 lenses that are extremely sharp and usable wide open. My Canon lenses were all larger, heavier and needed to be stopped down to match that performance (which negates some of the high ISO and shallow DOF advantages the FF sensor offers). However, I'd certainly be open to a fixed lens Fuji FF camera (or even a range of them) where the lens can be optimized for the sensor which would keep things more compact
     
    • Like Like x 2
  5. jloden

    jloden FujiXspot Top Veteran

    708
    Mar 9, 2013
    Hunterdon County, NJ
    Jay
    As far as XF lenses... I'm totally in favor of the current X-system and don't want them to develop another FF system with separate glass. I agree with the other points that have been made. They'd have to be bigger and/or slower lenses, and I like that Fuji is right in the middle of the size game while still providing excellent performance.

    However, a FF Fuji that can use M-mount lenses would be fantastic. The crop factor really gets in the way of great wide glass which is my only disappointment in using the X-T1 for adapted lenses. I like Fuji as a company, I like their style and design, and I'd much prefer to stay with Fuji than Sony which is the only game in town presently for adapting M lenses without a crop sensor.
     
  6. jloden

    jloden FujiXspot Top Veteran

    708
    Mar 9, 2013
    Hunterdon County, NJ
    Jay
    Agreed... I am wondering if maybe they saw how many people jumped on the A7 and A7R for adapting Leica and other manual focus lenses and decided it was worth it for Fuji financially to develop their own FF mirrorless based on that.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  7. faberryman

    faberryman FujiXspot Rookie

    23
    Dec 13, 2013
    Why does anyone give this so-called rumor any credence?
     
  8. ean10775

    ean10775 FujiXspot Top Veteran

    886
    Feb 13, 2013
    Cleveland, OH
    Eric
    Admittedly I'm not terribly current on the Sony FF mirrorless cameras, but weren't/aren't there a number of issues with IQ related to using M glass on these bodies (especially the wide angle lenses)? I have no doubt that Fuji could put out a FF camera that would rival Leica when shooting with Leica lenses, but I'm wondering what the cost of that camera would end up being. Although, Fuji have put out a camera that didn't have its own lenses before correct (the S2-S5 Pro)? That was essentially based on a Nikon camera though which is why it mounted Nikon lenses. I suppose its possible they could do it again, but with an adaptable Leica/other rangefinder glass mount
     
  9. SnapDawg

    SnapDawg FujiXspot Veteran

    276
    Dec 30, 2013
    behind an [X°]
    Ken
    So far I felt no urges to go FF but a XP2 could change that, especially if they get a grip on those corner issues with WA RF lenses and keep those lenses relatively compact. I still have my amazing Contax G glass and some other RF lenses and I'd really like to see the wider ones perform on a future Fuji cam like they did on film back in the days - brilliantly, without any of those annoying corner smear or color shift issues.
     
  10. Ray Sachs

    Ray Sachs FujiXspot Veteran

    485
    Feb 1, 2013
    Near Philadephila
    One of the semi-ironies of developing a full frame X-PRO model, assuming that the rangefinder glass crowd would be assumed to be a big part of the market, is that the OVF, the single distinguishing feature of the X-Pro, will be essentially useless with those lenses for any sort of critical focus. It would still be useable for zone focus, but not much more. But I'm sure the EVF will be a whole lot better than the one in the original X-Pro. The XT1 is about as good for manual focus as I'd ever want a camera to be and I'm sure any future X-Pro would be at least as good...

    -Ray
     
  11. SnapDawg

    SnapDawg FujiXspot Veteran

    276
    Dec 30, 2013
    behind an [X°]
    Ken
    Unless they'd take it that far and implement RF/distance coupling for example via electromechanical sensor in an electronic adapter. Doesn't have to sit in the body, keeps the registration distance/body somewhat smaller and brings in some extra $$$. Just attach a RF lens, flip through a menu to choose the FL (or exact lens model) focus via superimposed focus peaking or whatever they might come up with in the future and shoot away. Just thinking out loud ...
     
  12. jloden

    jloden FujiXspot Top Veteran

    708
    Mar 9, 2013
    Hunterdon County, NJ
    Jay
    That's correct, the A7/A7R have their share of issues with rangefinder glass. It's not disastrous, but it's also clearly not optimal if you *main* goal is adapting M lenses to the Sony cameras. Doesn't affect all lenses but many optical designs, particularly wide angle ones, are susceptible to corner smearing and color shifts when adapted to the A7.

    Even if all of that was the same with a hypothetical Fuji, I'd still rather see a Fuji model FF camera that I can mount M lenses on, because I like Fuji as a company a lot better than Sony, and the X-T1's interface is way more my style than the A7 :smile:
     
    • Like Like x 1
  13. Stephen S

    Stephen S FujiXspot Veteran

    351
    Feb 14, 2014
    East Bay, Northern California
    Stephen Scharf
    Ray, you have summed up my views about this perfectly. Full-frame means possibly bigger cameras and definitely bigger glass. And I'm trying to go in completely the other direction: more compact, smaller, and lighter cameras and lenses. I carted big pro glass and bodies around doing motorsports photojournalism for a decade; that was enough for me and my body (and back).

    If Fuji does go to FF, which I hope it doesn't (I really don't see any compelling reason why one needs to at this point in time), I hope they continue to develop APS-C cameras and enhance the current XF lens roadmap, which is really wonderful, with superb optical quality.
     
  14. Stephen S

    Stephen S FujiXspot Veteran

    351
    Feb 14, 2014
    East Bay, Northern California
    Stephen Scharf
    I fully agree, but personally I'm not interested in an Fuji FF X-cam primarily intended M-mount lens camera. Fuji's glass is fantastic, and autofocus is a wonderful thing. Just my 2¢.
     
  15. romi.gilles

    romi.gilles FujiXspot Top Veteran

    654
    May 17, 2013
    back in Crooklyn
    just because fuji comes out with a x-pro successor that's FF (assuming they do) doesn't mean you're neither forced to change over or leave - just continue forward with their apsc line. it's not going to be the end of the world, is it?

    (Sent from another Galaxy via Tapatalk.)
     
  16. ean10775

    ean10775 FujiXspot Top Veteran

    886
    Feb 13, 2013
    Cleveland, OH
    Eric
    I think the point is that with limited resources there would potentially be less development in the APSC line of cameras if Fuji also had to focus on a FF line. For example - how many wonderful and brand new lenses do we see come out in EF-S mount for Canon? And Fuji wouldn't have nearly the resources Canon has. I for one would rather see Fuji put all it eggs in the APSC basket with regard to it ILCs and leave any FF focus on perhaps one or more fixed lens models.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
    • Like Like x 1
  17. romi.gilles

    romi.gilles FujiXspot Top Veteran

    654
    May 17, 2013
    back in Crooklyn
    didn't they also mention something about.. they wanted their customers to be able to use their stuff, longer? sometimes we have to give them the benefit of the doubt and just trust them. they've been quite good this far. we can at least hope.

    (Sent from another Galaxy via Tapatalk.)
     
  18. Ray Sachs

    Ray Sachs FujiXspot Veteran

    485
    Feb 1, 2013
    Near Philadephila
    Yeah, but they've been back in the game for all of about three years now (the X100 hit in March/April of 2011) so it's a little early to see any long term trends in their corporate strategy. Sony makes great stuff but they've bounced all over the place. I hope Fuji doesn't and I suspect they're less likely to, but I won't be shocked either way...

    -Ray
     
  19. SnapDawg

    SnapDawg FujiXspot Veteran

    276
    Dec 30, 2013
    behind an [X°]
    Ken
    At least it keeps their service folks busy, lol.

    I'm personally very happy with their APS stuff; a full-frame XP2 would be an interesting partner for my RF glass - a nice-to-have item, rather than a necessity. For the stuff I mainly shoot I have all the gear I need and the older I get the more I prefer compactness/portability over absolute IQ. As far as what I'd like to see them come out with first, it'd still be a 23mm pancake and a X30 with a one-inch sensor. YMMV.
     
  20. Ambler

    Ambler FujiXspot Regular

    51
    Nov 13, 2013
    Cumbria, UK
    Peter
    I would only be interested in FF if they can perform some magic and keep the body and lens sizes and weight similar to the current line up. These are key factors for me, hence my lack of interest in the forthcoming 2.8 zooms.
    My previous travel kit was a Nikon D300 with 16-85 ( a lens rated 4 star by Photozone) plus a 135mm 2.8 Ai, a lens which is quite light (400gms) for its focal length. Overall this weighed over 1750 gms. My X travel kit is the 14mm, 18-55 plus 55-200. This gives me a wider coverage and weighs just over 1400gms, so a decent saving with very good optical quality.
    Now my wish is for the 18-55 to be morphed into a 16-50/60 (no weight or size increase) with the 55-200 morphed into a smaller lighter lens, perhaps a bit shorter at the long end.
    So Fuji, please forget FF and improve what you have. It's brought all of us to ownership of your goods and steady evolution will keep us here.