Featured Forum Thread: 'X20 Samples'

Discussion in 'Open Discussion' started by flysurfer, Mar 5, 2013.

  1. flysurfer

    flysurfer X-Pert

    Feb 1, 2013
    Nuremberg
    Rico Pfirstinger
    Note from Amin: Click on any image to visit flysurfer's Flickr pages where you can view the full-resolution version.


    Finally got mine this evening, so here are a few samples I made earlier today, each with internal and external RAW processing:

    8531931917_b043eab4c0_z.
    DSCF0117 - DR200, Pro Neg. Hi by ricopress, on Flickr

    8532647464_088bb961fe_z.
    DSCF0013 by ricopress, on Flickr

    8533043162_a9993011c3_z.
    DSCF0123 - DR200, Velvia by ricopress, on Flickr

    8531539533_f4897b3f79_z.
    DSCF0023 by ricopress, on Flickr

    8531935137_3723e13f83_z.
    DSCF0127 - DR400, Pro Neg. Hi by ricopress, on Flickr

    View attachment 10485
    DSCF0043 by ricopress, on Flickr

    8531936799_d00d9287e8_z.
    DSCF0126 - DR200, Astia by ricopress, on Flickr

    8531604881_02feb63ccf_z.
    DSCF0050 by ricopress, on Flickr

    8533048456_3c2a92efbc_z.
    DSCF0130 - DR400, Provia by ricopress, on Flickr

    View attachment 10489
    S0020070 by ricopress, on Flickr

    I will try to update and expand the sample set in the coming days and weeks.
     
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  2. Penfan2010

    Penfan2010 FujiXspot Veteran

    291
    Feb 1, 2013
    Central-ish NJ
    Ed
    Thanks for sharing, good clean colors which remind me of the X100. Did you own an X10 beforehand and if so was it worth the upgrade?
     
  3. Iansky

    Iansky FujiXspot Top Veteran

    983
    Feb 1, 2013
    The Cotswolds, UK
    Ian Lloyd-Grahm
    Nice set of images that show the X20 ability to get some action shots as well as handle flare as well as can be expected - I like the close focus/macro capability shown on the opening shots and the bokeh looks good.

    I want one.................Amin are you listening - me, me ,me, me , ohhhhhh please, me!
     
  4. theoldsmithy

    theoldsmithy FujiXspot Regular

    95
    Feb 4, 2013
    Herefordshire, England
    Martin Connolly
    Hi, very nice results from the processed versions - I presume you did the basic processing of the raw file in LR then imported into Aperture...did you do any more processing in Aperture?
     
  5. flysurfer

    flysurfer X-Pert

    Feb 1, 2013
    Nuremberg
    Rico Pfirstinger
    I did most of the changes in Lightroom for these shots. I usually do (additonal) color grading in Aperture, though.

    Here are a few more Lightroom samples (full-size) from earlier today:

    8535488502_26607c9c40_c.
    DSCF0148 by ricopress, on Flickr

    8534382865_abf07812f5_c.
    DSCF0156 by ricopress, on Flickr

    8535493826_e2345b9a79_c.
    DSCF0161 by ricopress, on Flickr

    There a several more OOC JPEG samples in my X20 set.

    And here's a set with my X20 vs. X10 shootout..

    Since there's plenty to say about the differences between both cameras and how to adapt your shooting style to each model, this will be the topic of Friday's X-PERT CORNER column over at Fujirumors. I reckon this might be of interest for some of you. Basically, if you know how to get optimal results from an X10, this method will return subpar results with an X20 – and vice versa.
     
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  6. ci-lee

    ci-lee FujiXspot Regular

    29
    Feb 12, 2013
    Thanks for posting the photos an really look forward to reading your upcoming article!
     
  7. vonskie

    vonskie New to FujiXspot

    1
    Mar 6, 2013
    I was pretty excited about getting this camera, but the amount of noise is terrible you can see the pixelation on the sample photos if you look close enough on the jacket and then when you pull up the full size photo on flicker it looks like a picture from a webcam.

    I like the pictures you took no complaint there. But I pulled up pictures from both my G10 and G12 and they looked much better I was shocked.

    I guess I will not be purchasing a X20
     
  8. flysurfer

    flysurfer X-Pert

    Feb 1, 2013
    Nuremberg
    Rico Pfirstinger
    That's interesting. Can you offer samples from a G10 or G12 showing better artefact handling when performing shadow tonemapping by pushing detail-bearing blacks and shadows in the range of 3-4 EV?

    Obviously, I made these shots for users who are interested in the consequences of a transition from EXR DR to tradiational DR compression (aka ISO DR). That's why I spent a few hours today performing the X20 vs.X10 comparison, concentrating on DR200% and DR400% and looking at shadow areas.

    Personally, I'm not disappointed that the camera can turn this image...
    8535962448_284a2697de_c.

    ...into this JPEG by means of fully automatic tone-mapping.

    8533048456_3c2a92efbc_c.
    DSCF0130 - DR400, Provia by ricopress, on Flickr

    Of course, one can push the envelope even further with an external RAW workflow, which is exactly what I did in Lightroom 4.4RC...

    View attachment 10544
    S0020070 - DR400% by ricopress, on Flickr

    Now, if you tell me that a Canon G10 or G12 can do this with much better results, I'd really like to see it, as my riding hobby requires a fair amount of high dynamic range shooting without much time to prepare a shot by means of ETTR or with the live histogram. After all, I am sitting on a horse, holding the camera with one hand and the horse with the other. ;) I usually have between 3 and 6 seconds to prepare, focus, frame and expose a shot until either my horse the subject's horse are moving.

    That's why I am using EXR compact cameras, as the EXR sensor offers unique advantages by means of hardware-based DR expansion (as opposed to software-based DR expansion of the X20 and all cameras from Canon, Nikon, Sony and pretty much everybody else). I can literally point and shoot without worrying about shadow detail handling in DR400% shots. And I definitely need DR400% for this kind of subject matter, as you will immediately understand when you have look at our website at www.lets-ride.de.

    Analyzing the samples in today's X20/X10 shootout demonstrate that conservative use of ISO DR will dramatically improve X20 IQ in shadow areas, both internally and when using an external RAW converter. However, if a Canon G10 (which features an entirely conventional sensor) can do better than the X20 and match the X10 (I'm happy with 6 MP), I'm sold. But you need to show me first, as it sounds almost like a miracle to me, defying well-established laws of physics.
     
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  9. flysurfer

    flysurfer X-Pert

    Feb 1, 2013
    Nuremberg
    Rico Pfirstinger
    • Like Like x 4
  10. theoldsmithy

    theoldsmithy FujiXspot Regular

    95
    Feb 4, 2013
    Herefordshire, England
    Martin Connolly
    I used to have a Canon G12 and the main reason I had for selling it was the lack of DR even in RAW files. I had a project where I took a photo of my garden from the kitchen window every morning. If the sky was overcast then the lack of detail in the shadows was really quite pronounced. Bringing up the shadows just created tons of noise. (Apart from that it was a great camera, a pleasure to use, even if I never really got the hang of some of the options!)
     
  11. flysurfer

    flysurfer X-Pert

    Feb 1, 2013
    Nuremberg
    Rico Pfirstinger
    That would be my expectation given the conventional structure of the Canon sensor and its age and size. Nothing bad about that, but imagine my genuine surprise when I read quite the opposite statement from vronskie.

    I'd very much like to see these images, if possible before and after shadow tone-mapping in the 2-4 EV region. Seeing is believing. :)
     
  12. pniev

    pniev Guest

    Thank you very much for sharing your photos, and especially the comparison with the X10. I am looking forward to reading your topic tomorrow!

    May I ask you two questions? (unless you address them in your X-PERT article):
    1. Did you notice a substantial increase in resolution?
    2. I do not see substantial difference in tones and DR when you shoot in M format. What about L-format? My experience is that the X10 is not very good in photographing clouds in clear skies. Does the X20 perform better?

    Thanks again,

    Peter
     
  13. yorik

    yorik FujiXspot Regular

    31
    Feb 1, 2013
    Northern California
    Yonatan
    It's supposed to be a random choice... (and I am by far the most random person you will find :) )
     
  14. theoldsmithy

    theoldsmithy FujiXspot Regular

    95
    Feb 4, 2013
    Herefordshire, England
    Martin Connolly
    Speaking of skin tones....plenty on show here (nothing remotely salacious BTW - it's a series of photos of a ballet class) Some of those are really stunning images.
    (But how come they get the camera in Poland and we're still waiting in the UK...no fair...)
     
  15. flysurfer

    flysurfer X-Pert

    Feb 1, 2013
    Nuremberg
    Rico Pfirstinger
    Well, there is an L example in the shootout, so judge for yourself. As for increased resolution: sure, it's obvious in the JPEGs and even more so in external RAW conversions. EXR cameras simply don't work well with Silkypix and even Lightroom. X-Trans actually does work, thanks to LR 4.4RC. I have just added several more samples, both JPEGs and Silkypix / Lightroom renderings. I specifically like the fact that I can limit noise reduction in Lightroom and Silkypix, as the resulting noise will look like film grain, giving the shot a nice organic look.
     
  16. nippa

    nippa FujiXspot Regular

    50
    Feb 26, 2013
    Cheshire UK
    Dennis
    Thanks for posting the examples. It's the kind of thing I'd been looking for.
    Any chance of posting X10/X20 crops side by side to compare resolution at various settings?
    I'm not seeing an obvious improvement in IQ but perhaps it's my age.
     
  17. theoldsmithy

    theoldsmithy FujiXspot Regular

    95
    Feb 4, 2013
    Herefordshire, England
    Martin Connolly
    Dennis, if you look at the X-Pert Corner review, the last 2 shots of the town in Germany show better resolution from the X20 by quite a long way (IMHO).
     
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  18. nippa

    nippa FujiXspot Regular

    50
    Feb 26, 2013
    Cheshire UK
    Dennis
    I'm not sure that I'd say that the improvement in resolution meets the hype.

    After putting both images through Focus Magic to objectively evaluate the sharpness , the X10 shot called for 2 pixel adjustment and the X20 for 1 pixel indicating different levels of sharpening during processing.
    I reckon that on a 20x16 image both images would appear much the same.
    Having said that , I'll probably buy an X20 at some stage because of the improvements to the viewfinder but not for an improvement in IQ.

    Big thanks to Rico for all his efforts.
     
  19. flysurfer

    flysurfer X-Pert

    Feb 1, 2013
    Nuremberg
    Rico Pfirstinger
    It's quite simple: You can read the street signs in the X20 shot (both LR and JPEG), but not in the X10 shot (LR and JPEG). Since I have also made the RAWs available (see comment section of the article), everybody can try it with their own settings in Lightroom or in-camera.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  20. onreb

    onreb FujiXspot Regular

    40
    Mar 12, 2013
    Honestly, it's a subtle difference; nothing that would make a visible difference on a printed image. I'm surprised to see that developing the RAW with ACR, with a careful use of sharpening, the "grain" of the newer sensor is not better than the EXR's one. Indeed, I think Adobe hasn't yet done the best it can do with these sensors. In my short experience with Fuji, I'm inclined to think there's some "jealousy" on Fuji's part, to protect their technologies.