Fuji XE-2 auto iso settings

Discussion in 'Open Discussion' started by jnam, Dec 8, 2013.

  1. jnam

    jnam FujiXspot Rookie

    14
    Dec 8, 2013
    Can someone help please....

    My understanding is that in creating a custom setting, under auto ISO settings, I can dictate a minimum shutter speed for the camera to use. When I create a custom setting the camera is not abiding by that setting. What am I doing wrong?

    Thanks for suggestions.

    And FWIW...I am loving the XE-2, sold all my Nikon cameras and Zeiss lenses...:bravo-009:

    Jay
     
  2. flysurfer

    flysurfer X-Pert

    Feb 1, 2013
    Nuremberg
    Rico Pfirstinger
    Try a camera reset? Too little light for too low of an ISO ceiling?
     
  3. jnam

    jnam FujiXspot Rookie

    14
    Dec 8, 2013
    Interesting...so it works until it doesn't...what I mean is that in low light it just overrides restriction with a slower shutter speed without warning....hmmm....
     
  4. entropic remnants

    entropic remnants Solving for X

    718
    Jul 28, 2013
    Every Nikon I've ever owned works exactly the same way. That's the standard way to work and if you think about it, it makes sense. For instance:
    • If you are taking a photo you have 3 parameters for exposure: ISO, aperture and shutter speed.
    • If you're maxed out on any two of them, the third is the only adjustment that can be made.
    • If you are at max ISO, max aperture and you want to take a shot, then something has to give and that's shutter speed -- if it's too slow, don't press the button, lol.
    And I disagree you get no warning -- unless your shutter speed display is turned off in your viewfinder or LCD. When you are shooting at the extremes of light sensitivity, it's our job as a photographer I think to verify we're where we want to be. The camera is doing it's job so then it's up to us to monitor what it's doing by paying attention to that data.
     
  5. jnam

    jnam FujiXspot Rookie

    14
    Dec 8, 2013
    John,

    Thanks so much for your response. I agree with the factual aspects of your response. But my experience with Nikon is as follows...D300 with 300 F4, custom setting, shutter speed no slower than 1/400th. Camera will NOT allow me to shoot below 1/400th if other two parameters are already maxed out. It conveys message through a blinking "lo" message in viewfinder for f-stop. I need to react to the warning. The camera does not over-ride my restriction.

    The Fuji does over-ride without any warning.

    Just getting familiar with Fuji's nuances relative to what I have used and expected...

    Thanks,

    Jay

    (Apologize if this is a duplicate. Getting used to this forum's posting processes.)
     
  6. entropic remnants

    entropic remnants Solving for X

    718
    Jul 28, 2013
    Looks like you got in only one post. Sometimes the boar is slow and can fool you though, lol.

    Okay, I don't think my D200 or D7000 worked that way, but maybe I'm not remembering properly, or maybe the D300 was different, not sure. I know I prefer the Fuji style system (with the X-E2, X-M1 and X100S style of it, not the X-E1) because I don't want the camera deciding when I can't fire the shutter.

    Sorry for any inaccuracy -- I just don't remember my D200 or D7000 holding me up.

     
  7. jnam

    jnam FujiXspot Rookie

    14
    Dec 8, 2013
    Please, no worries, I appreciate you chatting with me. I am learning the system...and frankly I agree with you, rather than losing the shot entirely because of system constraints, you still get the shot...just need to know ones tools and what to be thinking about! :)

    Another note.....I must say using the 55-200 with its OIS I am able to get tack sharp photos at 200mm with 1/60th of second and with my Nikon 300 mm lens it would take a minimum of 1/400th handheld...this opens up so many shooting opportunities to me...loving it....
     
  8. entropic remnants

    entropic remnants Solving for X

    718
    Jul 28, 2013
    Good stuff. I have the 55-200mm and I agree that the stabilization is very good. I've read reviews which suggest otherwise but I think it's as good as the Nikon stuff I shot. Could be the VR II 70-200mm I had was a tad better but it was also faster and didn't need it quite as much in some circumstances.
     
  9. Miserere

    Miserere FujiXspot Regular

    32
    Dec 9, 2013
    Boston, MA
    John,

    I both do and don't agree with you, which is why I think there should be a menu option allowing us to choose if we want the override or not, and let me tell you why: ISO 6400! On a few occasions already I've run into shooting the 35mm wide open, hitting ISO 6400, and the camera overriding my 1/80s shutter limit. First time it happened I thought I was hallucinating; then I read the manual and stuff online and got a little annoyed. I would rather the camera let me take my underexposed shot at 1/80 than have it go to 1/20 to take a perfectly exposed blurry shot. Why? Because in postprocess (I shoot RAW) I could have pushed the underexposed shot 2 stops to get the correct exposure. Alternatively, Fuji could give us ISO 25,600 in RAW and we might not be having this conversation.

    Now, if I were shooting calmly off a tripod, then yeah, I'd rather the camera blow off the shutter speed limit so I could get a properly exposed shot. Mostly I shoot street, and I don't do it calmly, so in these situations I want my shutter speed limit to be absolute, definite, immovable and impenetrable. Fuji, let us choose how the limit works via a menu setting and make everyone happy :)
     
  10. flysurfer

    flysurfer X-Pert

    Feb 1, 2013
    Nuremberg
    Rico Pfirstinger
    I would never accept wrongly exposed results in an AE (auto exposure) mode. I'd probably abandon Fujifilm and look for a better option in such a case. It would be the same as underexposing in a fixed ISO setting and aperture priority instead of always adapting the shutter speed to get a correctly exposed shot.

    It could of course be an option (one of several 100 options some folks want, many of them quite peculiar), but there have been complaints that the camera already offers too many options as it is now. The menus get overcrowded.

    Fuji should prioritize and preferably only add options that at least a few dozen different people in the forum world are asking for. Like Face Recognition on Fn buttons.
     
  11. Miserere

    Miserere FujiXspot Regular

    32
    Dec 9, 2013
    Boston, MA
    But you're asking me to accept wrongly exposed results instead. You see, the camera is capable of reaching ISO 25,600 (it does so in JPEG mode), yet if I shoot RAW you are asking me to accept a motion-blurred shot at 1/20s + ISO 6400 instead of the correctly exposed, non-motion-blurred shot I wanted at 1/80s + ISO 25,600. I know that the high ISOs in JPEG are pushed, so as a compromise (if Fuji aren't going to allow high ISOs in RAW) I ask that I be allowed to make a shutter speed limit, a real, actual, definition-of-the-word, limit if I so want to. I'm not trying to break anybody else's mojo, I just ask that mine not be broken too.

    I cannot believe I am the only person in the world who has found the need to shoot at ISOs higher than 6400. Every other camera that I can think of offers the same ISO options in JPEG and RAW (at least at high ISO). I really don't think I'm being obscure or nitpicky here. This is common usage, best practices, standard protocol stuff.
     
  12. flysurfer

    flysurfer X-Pert

    Feb 1, 2013
    Nuremberg
    Rico Pfirstinger
    No, simply choose a higher ISO or lift the results up in post. Beyond ISO 1600, RAW files do not change. They remain the same, no mattet what ISO you or the camera select. Only the automatic push in the RAW developer changes. So there is no underexposure in ISO 6400 if you wanted to shoot ISO 25600, there's just not enough digital gain. Simply add more gain in Lightroom and you are done.
     
  13. flysurfer

    flysurfer X-Pert

    Feb 1, 2013
    Nuremberg
    Rico Pfirstinger
    Simply push the RAW to whatever ISO you need. RAW metadata doesn't support more than 2 stops of digital autogain, so ISO 6400 has to be the RAW limit with this kind of ISOless sensor. There is a reason why ISO 12800 and 25600 are "extended ISO", it's a push of 3 or 4 EV, too much for most third-party converters to handle correctly on import. It's non-standard, it's too advanced and new for current software. RPP 64 already fails importing anything beyond ISO 1600 correctly, and even Adobe got it wrong in the X-M1 and X-E2 when importing ISO 3200 and ISO 6400 with DR 200% and DR400%. They apply a double-push, so you have to actually move the exposure slider back up to 2 EV to get correct results. Strangely, the mport works just fine with similar file from a X-A1.

    I am happy that Fuji is using state-of-the-art ISOless sensor technology from Sony instead of outdated technology like Canon (which still relies on analog amplification over a large part of the ISO spectrum).
     
  14. faberryman

    faberryman FujiXspot Rookie

    23
    Dec 13, 2013
    Is this still the case with LR5.3?
     
  15. flysurfer

    flysurfer X-Pert

    Feb 1, 2013
    Nuremberg
    Rico Pfirstinger
    Of course. And they can hardy correct it, because it would ruin previous conversions where the user manually corrected the faulty import gain.
     
  16. Miserere

    Miserere FujiXspot Regular

    32
    Dec 9, 2013
    Boston, MA
    I can't increase the ISO because I'm at 6400, and I'd happily push the file in post, but the camera blows past my shutter speed limit in order to expose correctly (but with a much slower shutter speed than I want) when I'm shooting in Av + Auto ISO. The only way for me to work around this is to shoot Tv + Auto ISO, because once ISO hits 6400 and aperture f/1.4, there's nowhere for the camera to go but underexposure.

    Thanks for the explanation, Rico; makes sense. Much appreciated!

    If I seem grumpy, it's because this not-really-shutter limit is frustrating me. With my Samsung mirrorless I often had to shoot Tv + Auto ISO because in Av the camera would often choose shutter speeds that were way too slow. One of the big reasons I bought the X-E2 was because it had a shutter speed limit in Auto ISO (I'm not kidding, it really was), and the fact that the camera blew off the limit was not discussed in the many reviews I read. When I realised it wasn't respecting the limit I felt a bit cheated. To you it appears to make sense what the camera is doing, but to me it doesn't. As a scientist, I deal with real physical limits that are inviolable, not highway speed limits that can be blown off.
     
  17. faberryman

    faberryman FujiXspot Rookie

    23
    Dec 13, 2013
    Do I uderstand correctly that you would prefer the shuuter speed limit to be hard, so that once the maximum aperture and ISO 6400 are reached, the camera would simply not fire.
     
  18. Miserere

    Miserere FujiXspot Regular

    32
    Dec 9, 2013
    Boston, MA
    I would like the option to exist for me to choose whether the limit is a real limit, or just a suggestion. I would choose for the limit to be hard, but the camera would still fire, of course, it would simply take an underexposed image.
     
  19. jnam

    jnam FujiXspot Rookie

    14
    Dec 8, 2013
    I agree because of the fact that this is a custom setting, done knowingly by user to limit shutter speed, and so it should be hard-stop honored...there are other ways to let the camera over-ride the restriction should that be desired by those who don't want the hard limit....without it being honored it is pointless...
     
  20. flysurfer

    flysurfer X-Pert

    Feb 1, 2013
    Nuremberg
    Rico Pfirstinger
    LOL, nah, simply set the EC dial to -1 EV or -2 EV to get the correct exposure for ISO 12800 and 25600. Then correct it in post, either with the built-in push function or with the exposure slider in your RAW converter. And always use DR400% at such high ISOs, this gives you more tone-mapping options in the built-in converter and a greater variety of dynamic range.