Given the "X-mounts," would you really even want to shoot with Leica?

Discussion in 'Fuji X-Mount Cameras' started by carlb, Feb 7, 2013.

  1. carlb

    carlb FujiXspot Veteran

    267
    Feb 6, 2013
    twin cities, minnesota
    Carl
    Fuji X-Pro and X-E1:
    - Superb image quality, colors, great feel to pics. Superb low-light peformance. No aliasing filter.
    - Easy manual control of aperture (on the lens, yes!), shutter speed (dedicated dial!).
    - Quick magnification to check manual focus.
    - Can shoot with those beautiful legacy lenses.
    - Classic looks and feel.

    Is there much left that's compelling for a Leica digital "M," given the above? Well, discounting the "I want it because I can't afford it" factor of course ... :D
     
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  2. Hyubie

    Hyubie FujiXspot Veteran

    206
    Feb 4, 2013
    Weymouth, MA
    The red dot ...
     
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  3. Ray Sachs

    Ray Sachs FujiXspot Veteran

    485
    Feb 1, 2013
    Near Philadephila
    I've never had the experience of shooting a Leica and haven't focused with a true rangefinder since I was a kid. The high end Leicas and high end glass are pretty special. I'd no doubt have one if I could afford it.

    -Ray
     
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  4. Luke

    Luke FujiXspot Top Veteran Subscribing Member

    854
    Jan 31, 2013
    Milwaukee, WI USA
    Luke
    If I had the money, I might.
     
  5. Lightmancer

    Lightmancer Super Moderator Subscribing Member

    Feb 2, 2013
    Sunny Frimley
    Bill Palmer
    Full frame, and the best, most pellucidly clear viewing system currently available. There is absolutely no substitute for that.

    Sent from another Galaxy
     
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  6. Amin Sabet

    Amin Sabet Administrator

    792
    Jan 31, 2013
    Boston, MA (USA)
    I'll take autofocus 99% of the time, but it's fun to manually focus that other 1%, and Leica has the best manual focus system around. I can't spend $10k for a camera and lens to use 1% of the time though...
     
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  7. Phoenix

    Phoenix Ronin-13 Subscribing Member

    728
    Jan 31, 2013
    Melbourne, Australia
    Phoenix
    I'm guessing just the difference itself is the appeal of it. We are all attracted to the Fuji X for a number of reasons, and some of us are attracted to a Leica M for a number (and a variety) of reasons as well, some of us just keep one body and just use it all the time, while others shoot with a Fuji X, and a film camera / dslr /medium format (combination of a couple), when there is a / need / mood / call for it.

    Variety is the spice of life, and we all want our spices at varying degrees. I for one is still very much in love with my Fuji X, and is still saving up for my Leica M (most likely M-E) not because it's a better camera, but because it's a different camera.
     
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  8. garylh

    garylh FujiXspot Regular

    71
    Feb 7, 2013
    Even though I have a Fuji m adapter, I really only use it to fill in the gap. Cv 15f4.5, 28f1.9, 40f1.4 and Canon 501.2 are the lenses I currently use w/ the m adapter. The Fuji native lenses are just as good IMHO as their Leica counter parts let alone the cv lineup.. I am a day one owner for both the x100 and xp1. The main reason I jumped in was Fuji got it right.. They went back to basics, unlike cameras like the Sony Nex (pre nex7), which I would call the iPhone of digital cameras. While I have an iPhone, I don't care to have one in a camera!! The Nex line has gotten better, but I much prefer the Fuji x lineup.

    I prefer autofocus to manual, which is why I don't use the m adapter that much. I know from my time on the rff forum, that part of the Leica experience is the rf experience itself. When I was shooting film, I have used a lot of rf cameras including Leica, but at end of the day, for me the rf experience was never enough to get me to cough up the money for the m8 or 9, but that is just me. The rd1 was something that interested me, but it never interested me enough at the time to buy it.

    Before the Fuji xp1, I used the Ricoh gxr w/ a12 m-module. It had the 35 v4 Sumicron just about permanently attached to it. I actually like it better than the Fuji xp1 for rf lenses. But as I said, my preferred method is autofocus these days. I would have recommended the gxr solution for those wanting rf only in the past if I were not for Ricoh may be abandoning the platform (rumored a16 is over a year and half past due) and last year concentrating on their new Pentax line. Outside of Leica digital m, the Fuji xp/xe series is a good second even w/o focus peaking.

    Gary
     
  9. veereshai

    veereshai New to FujiXspot

    8
    Feb 1, 2013
    If Fuji ever releases a camera like the monochrom, I'd probably never shoot with a Leica. If they don't and I have the funds, I'll definitely get the monochrom in the future.
     
  10. garylh

    garylh FujiXspot Regular

    71
    Feb 7, 2013
    Some things to think about. Kerry McClain had his Fuji converted to IR at maxmax.com. Check out his results.. Here

    http://rangefinderforum.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1986759&postcount=275

    They do other types of conversions as well.

    Here is the b&w image thread at rff as well

    http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=127288

    I feel it already does pretty well w/o going the full monochrom style treatment. Check out this set of shots from Ezzie in that same thread.

    http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2057356&postcount=75

    Anyway just some food or thought.

    Gary
     
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  11. dixeyk

    dixeyk Guest

    I have had a similar thought many times. I shoot manual focus legacy lenses almost exclusively and I think if I had the money (meaning if buying one was no more a hardship than spending $500 is for me now) then yes I would have an M9 or Monochrom and a Summicron 50. I'd do it because Leica lenses are as good as advertised and I love using RF cameras and right now the M9 is pretty much the best option if I want digital. BUT...it's not worth it for me to spend more than my car is worth on a body and lens. As it is the XE-1 is out of my range so I settle for the next tier down and have a NEX 5n with some Rokkors. Another thing that keeps the Leica out of reach (for me) is that they don't drop in price much as they age. I bought by 5n new for $399 several months back. I bet the XE-1 will drop in price after an XE-2 is announced. I see used M9's scuffed up and on their second or third owner) going for $4K - $5K.

    For some like me the Fuji XE-1 is a dream that I can see getting at some point. It might take a while but I see it as attainable. Now you could argue that the Fuji has better low light capabilities, less noise, better color or what-have-you and you might be right. When the FF NEX ships I assume it will be as good or better than the M9 on terms of the tech but I don't know that owning a Leica is really about that. It brings to mind a comparison between a BMW M3 and a Ford Mustang GT. The Mustang ran toe to toe with the much more expensive M3 and even bettered in in a few categories but I doubt anyone would ever see them as equivalent cars. It was a very impressive showing for the Mustang and speaks highly of Ford and the designers of the Mustang but it's not an M3. I see the Fuji in the same way.

    FWIW I would buy the Mustang over the M3.
     
  12. Hyubie

    Hyubie FujiXspot Veteran

    206
    Feb 4, 2013
    Weymouth, MA
    Wow those are good!
     
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  13. Phoenix

    Phoenix Ronin-13 Subscribing Member

    728
    Jan 31, 2013
    Melbourne, Australia
    Phoenix
    You and me both!
     
  14. carlb

    carlb FujiXspot Veteran

    267
    Feb 6, 2013
    twin cities, minnesota
    Carl
    There are those, and the rangefinder focus experience as Ray pointed out. The rangefinder focusing mechanics are "open-loop," and so need special design and care ($$$) to get right and keep right. (Seems to lose accuracy the longer the focal distance, too).

    It seems that Fuji might be trying for a version of the rangefinder focusing with the X100s. I think we'll all be watching that carefully. It won't be "viewing through glass," but the X-E1 evf is a long way toward a gorgeous visual. (Fuji will need to work out more of the "digital lag," true.)

    The full-frame sensor helps get shallow depth of field, although a larger aperture lens can offset that. That and the lack of an aliasing filter are definitely going to help. The full-frame sensor will always be out in front of the APS-C sensor, but I can't help but think we're already seeing that gap narrowing for the intents and purposes of a photographic experience. I could be wrong there, sure.

    Leica had to go to a new sensor with the "M," finally giving up that Kodak silicon in the M9 and M8. I hope they didn't leave something special behind in so doing. I've used the smaller brothers of the M8 and M9 Kodak sensors - they appeared in the Olympus E-1 and E500 in four-thirds size. There really is something special about that sensor technology. Although, I'm really seeing something special about this Fuji APS-C sensor.

    Interesting!

    An M8 and 50mm lens can be had these days for about $3K US. Still out of range for me, but getting closer ... (Yes that's an APS-C sensor, but as consolation it is that Kodak sensor)

    I suppose one of our enthusiast Japanese camera makers might go for a true rangefinder. Fuji would be one of the more likely to do it.
     
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  15. Steve B.

    Steve B. FujiXspot Regular

    85
    Feb 2, 2013
    If I could afford the B/W Leica I would buy it in a second. I can't so I'll have to make do with the X Pro. I do wish Fuji would consider a FF at some point. The only reason I'm not completely ditching my Nikon is because of the FF, even though I don't use it much anymore.
     
  16. Nic

    Nic FujiXspot Regular

    118
    Feb 5, 2013
    Brisbane, Australia
    Bigger actually: APS-H (~1.3x crop)
     
  17. carlb

    carlb FujiXspot Veteran

    267
    Feb 6, 2013
    twin cities, minnesota
    Carl
    I want the SUPERBIRD. Over a M9 anyday, heh!

    SNL did a game show skit once: "The Girl, The Wheels, or the Food." The guys had tough decisions there!

    For us here it would be "The Girl, The Wheels, or the Glass." :)
     
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  18. carlb

    carlb FujiXspot Veteran

    267
    Feb 6, 2013
    twin cities, minnesota
    Carl
    Ah, thanks!
     
  19. Luke

    Luke FujiXspot Top Veteran Subscribing Member

    854
    Jan 31, 2013
    Milwaukee, WI USA
    Luke
    I'll take the wheels to pick up the girl and then sell the wheels to get the glass:thumbup:
     
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  20. veereshai

    veereshai New to FujiXspot

    8
    Feb 1, 2013
    Thanks Gary, never thought of that option. I was skeptical about the monochrom until I got to play with one at the Leica store here. It just felt right and even the test shots kinda blew me away. I understand I could have been blinded by the Leica brand name, or may be not. The resolution was crazy good. But your post has definitely got me interested, I'll see more posts in that thread and see how well the conversion works.

    More like Mustang over Lincoln? (In reference to the Leica M9 in the Lincoln ad during the superbowl :p)