In-Camera Raw Processed Jpeg vs "normal" Jpeg creation by Fuji X-T1

Discussion in 'Coffee with Rico Pfirstinger, Fuji X-Pert' started by Don J J Carroll, Oct 31, 2015.

  1. Don J J Carroll

    Don J J Carroll New to FujiXspot

    5
    Nov 30, 2013
    I recently saw an article by Scott Bourne "The Absolutely Best Fuji (RAF) File Converter" dated July 30, 2015.

    In that blog post, Scott extolls the benefit of "in-camera" raw processed files.

    I had the impression after reading the article that there is a difference between the Jpeg created by the Fuji X-T1 when one has the settings: RAW + Fine and the Jpeg created by the in-camera RAW processor.

    Here's what I did as a test:
    1. Fuji X-T1 set to RAW + Fine
    2. Film Simulation set to STD
    3. I shoot a scene that has a Color Checker chart included
    4. I take the photo
    5. So now I have a RAF file and a JPEG (Std Film Simulation) file
    6. Next I then select the file from the Playback menu and choose RAW Conversion.
    7. I leave all the settings in that menu unchanged
    8. The image is processed and save as a 2nd Jpeg for that scene
    9. Now I have a Raf file, the initial Jpeg created from that file, and a 2nd Jpeg created by using the Raw Conversion in-camera software.
    10. I view all three images, in particular the two Jpegs, side by side, in the "Photo Mechanic" browser.
    11. I cannot see a difference between the two Jpegs, they are the exact same file size, look 100% the same.

    Question: Rico, mm I missing out on something here?

    PS: I am enjoying your Fuji X-T1 e-book, I did read the section on Raw Conversion by the way before I did my test.

    Don J J Carroll
     
    • Useful Useful x 1
  2. flysurfer

    flysurfer X-Pert

    Feb 1, 2013
    Nuremberg
    Rico Pfirstinger
    Why should there be any difference? Same processing, same result.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  3. flysurfer

    flysurfer X-Pert

    Feb 1, 2013
    Nuremberg
    Rico Pfirstinger
    The only reason I can imagine that would lead to different results is unfinished beta firmware, where the built-in RAW converter isn't fully supporting all JPEG settings, yet (or doesn't do devignetting, distortion correction or CA deduction). But as long as you are using regular firmware, all JPEGs from the internal converter should be FINE, 3:2 and size L and look exactly the FINE, 3:2, L JPEG that was originally taken (as long as no settings are changed).
     
  4. Don J J Carroll

    Don J J Carroll New to FujiXspot

    5
    Nov 30, 2013
     
  5. Don J J Carroll

    Don J J Carroll New to FujiXspot

    5
    Nov 30, 2013
    Ok Rico, then one of the reasons I can see people using the Fuji in-camera (Playback Mode) Raw Converter is to convert a raw (ra) file to several jpegs which have different parameter settings. I am aware that using the "bracket mode" one can get 3 jpegs of different settings but in that situation one does not have a raw (ra) file, only the 3 Jpegs.
     
  6. flysurfer

    flysurfer X-Pert

    Feb 1, 2013
    Nuremberg
    Rico Pfirstinger
    Exactly. Personally, I do this all the time, it only takes a few seconds to produce a new an dnehances JPEG in the camera.

    As for BKT: Yes, again! The only worthwhile BKT mode is exposure BKT, because the other BKT modes are gimmicky and JPEG-only. So they aren't even available for "normal" users who are shooting FINE+RAW, which is the recommended camera setting.
     
  7. Lightmancer

    Lightmancer Super Moderator Subscribing Member

    Feb 2, 2013
    Sunny Frimley
    Bill Palmer
    I often shoot, then have a fiddle with in-camera raw over a coffee at a café. I use in camera effects to a limited degree, shooting mono (usually with a "red filter"), "velvia" or classic chrome. I always spot meter, and usually underexpose by a third of a stop. I think ETTR and ETTL are over-rated in as much as slavish adherance to such "rules" can actually defeat the object. Mind, I also think "correct exposure" is a bourgeois concept in as much as "correct" in this context is relative not absolute and should actually be the realisation of the photographer's vision. ;)
     
  8. rav

    rav FujiXspot Regular

    53
    Jul 28, 2015
    Iam sorry if this sounds like a noob or silly question. If in camera raw converter creates exactly the same file as a normal jpeg file what is the use of in raw camera converter , one might shoot straight jpeg and be done . Iam.missing something crucial here ?
     
  9. Lightmancer

    Lightmancer Super Moderator Subscribing Member

    Feb 2, 2013
    Sunny Frimley
    Bill Palmer
    It's not a daft question at all. I use the custom settings on all my Fujis to give me SOOC options. I set one to BW/R, Auto ISO 3200 max, ditto Classic Chrome and Vivid. I also have one set to BW/R 6400. In camera raw gives me the same ability as any other raw converter to adjust exposure, DR, output type, etc after the event. In the case of the X100T, for example, I usually shoot mono, because the SOOC jpg is close to what I want. I have the viewfinder set to optical, with the "picture-in-picture" option turned on, thus giving me a mono view of the centre of my image. This is very useful given that I focus centrally and use spot metering. If the result would look better in colour, I have the option to flip it over from the raw file; the only difference is that I do it before I remove the card from the camera.
     
    • Useful Useful x 1
  10. KillRamsey

    KillRamsey Super Moderator

    Feb 15, 2013
    Hood River, OR
    Kyle
    In other words, if you want to shoot now and make up your mind what flavor of jpg you want later, you just shoot RAW (or RAW + jpg and you'll get one full sized finished jpg too) and then "process" them in-camera later. ...Over coffee, if you want to do it Bill-style.
     
    • Useful Useful x 1
  11. flysurfer

    flysurfer X-Pert

    Feb 1, 2013
    Nuremberg
    Rico Pfirstinger
    Obviously, the converter is there to change and improve the JPEG settings. The recommended basic camera setting is always FINE+RAW (with any JPEG settings one likes, I personally use factory settings), so we always get an initial JPEG file (which might already be "perfect" in rare cases), and we get the RAW that we use to generate improved JPEG versions in-camera after the fact, when we have the time.

    Using the built-in converter is easy and simple, as the parameters are the same as in the shooting menu. So there's no "RAW conversion learning curve" for those who have a basic understanding of their camera.
     
    • Useful Useful x 1
  12. ean10775

    ean10775 FujiXspot Top Veteran

    885
    Feb 13, 2013
    Cleveland, OH
    Eric
    The built-in RAW converter is perhaps my favorite feature of Fuji cameras and I wish more camera manufactures included it implemented in the same way that Fuji has. I shoot my X100T exclusively in RAW but with my standard JPEGs settings set so that the preview I get is what I typically prefer. Then I go through my images on the camera's LCD and pick which images I want to keep. If I like the way the image turned out with the JPEG settings that were set at the time of capture, I press the Q button twice and then press OK to save the JPEG with those settings. Sometimes if I didn't get the exposure quite right or I want to bring up the shadows or bring down the highlights I can make those adjustments, or create a second version in black and white or with another film simulation.

    I've never actually processed a RAW file from my X100T on my computer, just the resulting JPEGs (minimally) on my iPad. I previously had an X100S from which I processed RAF files on my Mac in Lightroom (the LR version I have doesn't support the X100T) It has been pretty liberating not being tied to Lightroom or another raw converter, and I'm perfectly happy with the images I'm getting. Fuji's JPEG quality (except for skin tones in high ISO situations) is really excellent.
     
    • Useful Useful x 1
  13. Adam Bonn

    Adam Bonn FujiXspot Veteran

    284
    Jan 13, 2016
    Porto
    Adam Bonn
    FWIW.... There's so many jpeg options on Fujis that even if you don't use the raw with an external converter (LR C1 etc) then it's worth shooting raw, so that later you can try a different look!

    For example, if I'm using MF on my Fuji bodies, I always set the B&W/Y film sim, because I like it AND it makes focus peaking really visible, (imo particularly handy on the XP1), but after the shoot, I might convert in camera the raws to a colour simulation

    As others have posted... The actual in camera raw conversion is exactly the same as the standard jpeg engine, BUT you get to adjust/change parameters that you might have missed or want to experiment with, that you didn't set when you hit the shutter button... Film sims, EV adjustment, opening/closing shadows and highlights, adding/subtracting sharpening or NR, white balance

    FWIW (I say that a lot!) you can't afford NOT to shoot jpeg fine + raw! it's free and gives you many more options!

    HTH...? I just joined here, and this is my second post!
     
    • Useful Useful x 1
  14. flysurfer

    flysurfer X-Pert

    Feb 1, 2013
    Nuremberg
    Rico Pfirstinger
    And with the next generation of cameras, the options increase further.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  15. rav

    rav FujiXspot Regular

    53
    Jul 28, 2015
    Can some one post a pic of jpeg which they shot first as jpeg+ raw ...and later converted the raw in jpeg in camera as per your taste pls ? I just want to see how great the converter in the camera is . Will be really thankful .
     
  16. Adam Bonn

    Adam Bonn FujiXspot Veteran

    284
    Jan 13, 2016
    Porto
    Adam Bonn
    Sure!

    B&W as shot, Colour (Pro Neg Std) created when I got home XPRO8082.JPG XPRO8132.JPG
     
    • Appreciate Appreciate x 1
  17. Adam Bonn

    Adam Bonn FujiXspot Veteran

    284
    Jan 13, 2016
    Porto
    Adam Bonn
    Also!

    B&W as shot, later CC & Pro Neg Std FXT18201.JPG FXT18212.JPG FXT18215.JPG
     
    • Appreciate Appreciate x 1
  18. Adam Bonn

    Adam Bonn FujiXspot Veteran

    284
    Jan 13, 2016
    Porto
    Adam Bonn
    And finally (!)

    1) as shot
    2) in camera
    3 C1 on the PC ;)

    FXT18213.JPG FXT18214.JPG FXT18213.c1.8._1.
     
    • Appreciate Appreciate x 1
  19. flysurfer

    flysurfer X-Pert

    Feb 1, 2013
    Nuremberg
    Rico Pfirstinger
    • Appreciate Appreciate x 1
  20. rav

    rav FujiXspot Regular

    53
    Jul 28, 2015
    Thanks so much guys .