Is it me? I'm not in love with my new xt-20

Discussion in 'Fuji X-Mount Cameras' started by csnite, Jun 7, 2017.

  1. csnite

    csnite New to FujiXspot

    6
    Mar 6, 2013
    I have been using a couple of systems concurrently and decided to go all in on a fuji system. The XT-20 is my body of choice. I picked it up locally with the 16-50 and immediately took it home to compare to my now very aged OMD-EM5. I splapped the 12-32 pancake on the olympus and the 16-50 on the Xt-20 and went shooting.

    My first surprise is that the 5 year old EM5 focuses faster consistently in almost any light. This is a noticeable difference. I was in single point af, with the smallest selectable point on both cameras, and I was looking for contrast while I was focusing. In lower light, the EM5 maintains its lead. This is surprising to me as I expected the 20 to be much better due to the phase detect af.

    My second surprise is that the IBIS of the EM5 is just so much better than the OIS of the 16-50. Really there is no comparison. I would say that IBIS is at least 2 stops better than the OIS. I found that I was having a much harder time getting sharp images with slow shutter speeds on the Fuji. I expected it to be worse, but this I believe was surprisingly worse.

    After getting them home, I began seriously looking at the image quality side by side. I will say that the xt-20 is a noticeable step up in quality from the 16 MP sensor both in resolution of detail and noise in higher ISO. There is no question that the resolution and quality of images is significantly better, even than my x100s. That was another shock. I had never realized that the lens on my X100s was quite soft, even at 5.6. I compared to the Em5 with the 12-32 pancake el-cheapo zoom and detail was better than the x100s. Not so with the Xt-20 and 16-50. So, I have no beef with the image quality of the XT-20. I am sure with nice lenses it will be leaps and bounds better than mu43. I am planning on getting the 18-50, the 35 or 23 f2, the 50 f2 and the xc50-230. Not a great amount by many standards, but I will be all in at least $2500 by the time I get extra batteries, filters, etc. That's a chunk of change, at least for me.

    So, the problem seems to be that the camera is still not as responsive in AF as my em5, OIS is worse than IBIS and only helps on lenses that have OIS. I love Fuji and have loved my X100s. I took only it to Italy in March and loved it, but felt too constricted by the slow AF and single focal length. I expected the AF to be better in the XT-20. I also wasn't expecting IBIS to have been that much of a crutch for me recently. I am not ready to give up the much better image quality for IBIS or slightly faster AF, so I am going to pick up either the 23 or 35 and see if I love it and if the Af is better. I just thought I would share my thoughts. I guess the deal for me is that I expected to be a little wowed by a brand new $1000 camera, and I'm kind of not. Is that normal?
     
  2. gryphon1911

    gryphon1911 FujiXspot Rookie

    11
    Apr 25, 2017
    I don't think you are crazy. I found very much the same thing - thus why I have never fully jumped to mirrorless cameras only(I still use Nikon) and Fuji is my third tier camera brand.

    1 = Nikon
    2 = Olympus (I use a PEN-F and love it)
    3 = Fuji (I got a steal of a deal on a used XT1, so am using it mainly with adapted Nikon lenses...but I also have the 16-50 and find it adequate for normal shooting)
     
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  3. BobbyT

    BobbyT Super Moderator Subscribing Member

    Dec 31, 2013
    Louisville, Ky
    Bobby Tingle
    You need to compare to a better lens than the 16-50. It is very slow to AF. And does not have fuji's best IS.
     
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  4. Lightmancer

    Lightmancer Super Moderator Subscribing Member

    Feb 2, 2013
    Sunny Frimley
    Bill Palmer
    Similarly, the XT-20, although good, is not by any stretch of the imagination Fuji's finest. Age doesn't come into it. I drive a 10 year old car that is quicker, more comfortable, better built and better equipped than 95% of new cars.
     
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  5. drd1135

    drd1135 FujiXspot Regular

    191
    Oct 3, 2013
    Southwest Virginia
    Steve
    With an XT20 and the 16-50 and it's important to separate the performance of each. I have the XT20 and an EM5II. I find that for SAF the two cameras focus at similar speeds. I really don't use CAF so I can't comment. I'm not a fan of zooms in general so I have the 27, 50, and 35 1.4. My results are very sharp. As for IS, Olympus is really good at that and I would not be surprised if the OIS on a kit lens is inferior to the 5 axis IBIS. I would even bet that the better Fuji OIS can't keep up. The IBIS is the only thing I really miss from Olympus.
     
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  6. mma2

    mma2 New to FujiXspot

    5
    Feb 27, 2017
    Sacramento, CA
    Rick
    My $0.02

    I had both an OMD EM5 and EM1.mk1 before buying a used XT10 w/16-50. AF-S speed was faster on the OMDs but I was using a fast Panasonic 12-35/2.8 zoom. I bought a 18-55/2-4 OIS and the AF speed was much better, about the same as the EM5. However, the OIS in both Fuji lenses is simply not as good as OMD IBIS.

    I sold the XT10 & 16-50, upgrading to a XT2, which should have the same AF performance as the XT20. My experience with the XT2 is that it is significantly better than both OMDs for both AF-S and AF-C speed and accuracy with the 18-55 and primes. IQ from these Fujis is simply outstanding. Sold the OMDs and MFT lenses.

    Regarding OMD's fantastic IBIS, I do miss it but it also had a downside. IBIS is so good with every lens that I got sloppy in my hand-holding technique. IBIS yielded sharp results no matter what I did. I also shoot a Nikon dSLR with a few VR lenses. While neither Nikon VR nor Fuji OIS ultimately perform as well as IBIS, I can achieve very sharp results at similar shutter speeds with OIS and VR when using good holding technique.

    Back to Fuji IQ. The reason that I have become a Fuji shooter is because of the beautiful color rendition from these cameras. I recently acquired a used X-Pro1, a first generation X-camera. Despite it's age, same beautiful color and IQ. Maybe I could adjust OMD and Nikon RAWs to look similar, but why (if the Fujis inherently produce what I want)? Since you value IQ, my bet is that your XT20 will grow on you.
     
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  7. mikEm13

    mikEm13 FujiXspot Regular

    122
    Feb 7, 2017
    I agree.
     
  8. davidzvi

    davidzvi FujiXspot Regular

    84
    Apr 24, 2014
    Outside Boston MA
    David
    I toy with the idea of switching over from m4/3 to Fuji every now and then. I'll probably take a really hard look at it again when the projected X-E3 comes out since I prefer the rangefinder and touch. Overall "speed" of the Fuji systems is a bit slower than m4/3, but for what I shoot, it really isn't that big a deal.

    I do love the colors from my X70, it will be interesting to see it's replacement.
     
  9. plaatje

    plaatje FujiXspot Regular

    51
    Mar 11, 2016
    Jos
    I do love that rangefinder look, I really like the X-Pro1 that made me switch from M43 (But I still have one Olympus and a Panasonic, so . . . ) but that Pen F! If the price will fall I might just buy it. I think it looks great, has "filmsimulations" as the Fuji's have and I saw some really great JPGS from that camera. What I wanted was an X-Pro2. Got the opportunity to try one and now I have my doubts. For me it's not what I got with the X-pro1. I wanted that one and when I had one in my hands I wanted it even more.
    But maybe things might change when new camera's come up . . .
     
  10. gravija_flare

    gravija_flare FujiXspot Regular

    82
    May 23, 2016
    A planet called Gaia
    i was also an mft user before i switched to fuji x, and used e-m5 I, e-m5 II and f1.7/f1.8 primes. my suggestion is to skip and/or sell off the XC zooms since they are simply not the best lenses to pair with a mid-range body such as the x-t20. i think you'll be better served with fast af from the f2 primes. i use the 23mm f2 and 50mm f2 with an x-t2, and like the others, ibis is the only thing that i miss (sometimes) from olympus. ;)
     
  11. gryphon1911

    gryphon1911 FujiXspot Rookie

    11
    Apr 25, 2017
    The PEN-F is a killer camera. I use it a ton. There is a lot to love about it...just keep in mind that contrast detect continuous AF on olympus cameras are pretty much garbage. If you need decent continuous AF, you'll want an EM1 series camera or a GH4 or above Panasonic
     
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  12. Adam Bonn

    Adam Bonn FujiXspot Veteran

    284
    Jan 13, 2016
    Porto
    Adam Bonn
    AF is basically a computer algorithm that analyses the data from the sensor and looks for tells that stuff is in focus

    The physically larger the sensor the more data there is too crunch

    So APSC will always require more work than m43

    X-Trans compounds this by being a more data intensive CFA than Bayer

    Some Fuji lenses focus quicker than others, the newer f2 primes for example

    There's also the crop factor in play... m43 presents a greater DOF for a given FL and aperture, which again plays to the AF speed of m43

    So why don't we all just shoot m34?

    Well if AF is our primary concern, perhaps we should

    But as noted by the OP, APSC offers tangible IQ benefits that are worth sacrificing a few milliseconds of AF speed for
     
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  13. bs1946

    bs1946 FujiXspot Regular

    74
    Mar 12, 2016
    Olympus is considered to have blazing fast and highly accurate CDAF. I used to have an E-M10 and with the 12-40mm f2.8 or any of the primes I had, AF was virtually instantaneous. I don't care which Fuji you pick, it won't match the speed of your E-M5. Another thing you need to do is change the AF point size on your X-T20 to midsize and that should improve the AF speed.
     
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  14. csnite

    csnite New to FujiXspot

    6
    Mar 6, 2013
    Well, after a few days of use and some familiarity, I have fallen for the little gem. I picked up a Minolta MD Rokkor x 50 f1.4 and a cheap adapter. I knew the lens was fairly well regarded and I wanted to see if I could come to terms with the image quality of the XT-20. Long story short, I am ordering the 23 f1.4, and rokinon 12. I will probably save for the 50 f2 or 56 and call it quits for now on the lenses. Here's a couple manual focused with the 22 year old minolta. I also am using iridient to import and turn them into DNG. There is a huge difference in my opinion between LR and Iridient. After turning them into DNG's I bring them into LR for more post and color work. I still am struggling with the lack of IBIS a little, but I have come to terms that I need to practice better technique.
    full.
    full.
     
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  15. KillRamsey

    KillRamsey Super Moderator

    Feb 15, 2013
    Hood River, OR
    Kyle
    High five on the Rokkor love. They just render so nicely, and are a joy to use. Love my 28 2.8 and MC 55 f1.7.

    It's funny, but sometimes when I'm using a mf lens, I find myself loving the fact that I don't have to hit AF Lock in situations EXACTLY like that swing shot above... Dial it in once, and just keep hitting everytime she swings all the way forward. Ditto the rokinon 12 lens: So many times while biking, I will reach into my bag (mounted on handlebars), click the aperture ring back 8 clicks to 5.6, turn the focus ring to infinity and then back it off by just a touch, all without taking my eyes off the road / trail. So when I pull that camera out, everything is in focus and sharp, and all I have to worry about is "is my shutter speed fast enough?"
     
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  16. mnhoj

    mnhoj FujiXspot Regular

    96
    Aug 25, 2013
    I love the look and expression in both of the images posted.
    And congrats on finding your way with the X-T20.
     
  17. TN Args

    TN Args New to FujiXspot

    2
    Mar 2, 2017
    The smaller the AF box, the slower the AF. If the smallest AF box of the XT20 is noticeably smaller than the EM5, that would explain that. Try a similar AF box size in both cameras.

    Regarding PDAF, note that the lenses you used are your typical wide/slight-tele zooms, and slow too, so the DOF is pretty huge most of the time and the lenses really need very little AF adjustment for most images. Now put the 75/1.8 on the Oly and the 90/2 on the Fuji and try again.
     
  18. rayvonn

    rayvonn FujiXspot Regular

    124
    Jan 6, 2016
    This basically describes my move into Fuji and my ongoing enjoyment with the system but in my case using the X-T1/Takumar/Nokton/ native 35mm F2 combos.

    I have been wondering about this comparison myself.
     
  19. bs1946

    bs1946 FujiXspot Regular

    74
    Mar 12, 2016
    Micro 4/3 cameras all have blazing fast autofocus. I had an Olympus E-M10 and EPL-5 plus a Panasonic GX7 and GM5. All four were CDAF and as long as there was some contrast to lock on, autofocus was virtually instantaneous and very accurate. However, it's because of the smaller sensor size; not the AF point size. The only time there was any delay was when using some of the older lenses because of the slower AF motors they had. Two that come to mind are the Panasonic 20mm f1.7 and the Olympus 17mm f2.8 pancake lens that was actually the first kit lens for the pen series.
     
  20. TN Args

    TN Args New to FujiXspot

    2
    Mar 2, 2017
    @bs1946@bs1946 I assure you my GX7 the AF slowed down a lot when you selected the smallest size of AF box/point. So much that I couldn't live with it and settled on the second-smallest AF box. And I was not alone, several times others complained in m43 forums about too-slow AF of their m43 cameras (not just the GX7) and when I told them what to do it was fixed.

    cheers
     
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