Viewfinders

Discussion in 'Fuji X10, X20, X30, XF1, and X-S1' started by hellwill, Feb 5, 2013.

  1. hellwill

    hellwill FujiXspot Rookie

    19
    Feb 5, 2013
    William Heller
    As a sort-of photographer of a certain age, I am glad to see that Fuji (I suppose I should note that I never have owned a Fuji camera) seems committed to providing a nice viewfinder. I am looking for a new camera and leaning ever more toward the X20, as it seems to have the balance of size, image quality, and flexibility (that fast, high-quality zoom lens!) that I have been holding out for. I never liked the idea of having to put on my glasses to look at the LCD screen, then take them off to look at what I actually want to photograph (sort of defeats the purpose of things like fast autofocus), and because I can only take pictures as a side note to doing something else--so the camera is something extra, not my reason for doing whatever I am doing--a DSLR is too bulky and sometimes simply out of the question, as is a four-thirds with a lens. Also, it's easier to hold a camera steady when it's up to your eye rather than held at arm's length. But here's the thing: why an OVF that only covers 85% of the capturable image? Why not the full size or, better yet, 110% And if that isn't doable, is there some technical reason that an EVF (or that hybrid that people rave about in the x100) can't work?
     
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  2. otalp

    otalp FujiXspot Regular

    42
    Feb 8, 2013
    Germany
    There have been times when OVFs had more than 100% coverage as standard. They were equipped with lines indicating the captured area and giving you an idea of possible parallax errors. However, I have no idea how accurate they were.
     
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  3. FlyDog

    FlyDog FujiXspot Rookie

    23
    Feb 5, 2013
    Tolland, CT
    Bob G
    One of my frustrations with the Canon G10 is the low-mag. 80% OVF that's barely better than contemporary Canons at 1/4 the price. The promise of a better OVF in the X20 was a reason for ordering one. I think coverage below 85-90% is common in less expensive cameras to save cost. 90-95+% coverage doesn't work without parallax compensation and tight manufacturing tolerances. The key is never to have anything show in the VF but not in the image. IIRC, the .72x Leica Ms have their frame lines set at around 95% coverage for 35mm lenses but about 90% for 90mm. The 35mm lines were pretty darn accurate on the M2 I had.
     
  4. Jimbo70

    Jimbo70 FujiXspot Regular

    40
    Feb 8, 2013
    Orange Park, FL.
    I had a Canon G3 and still occasionally use an old Canon A710. They both have tunnel OVFs which are horrible. The X10 with it's 85% OVF is so much better. I spent nearly two years with a Pany GH2 and never did like the EVF. I guess I'm old school but I much prefer the OVF and I'm glad that Fuji desided to put it in the X20. As far as parallax is concerned I would think the addition of Grid Lines in the OVF should help once you become familiar with the camera.
     
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  5. hellwill

    hellwill FujiXspot Rookie

    19
    Feb 5, 2013
    William Heller
    For the price of a Leica, they'd better be! :cool: I have high hopes for this X20. No viewfinder is a dealbreaker for me, and for some reason--really couldn't say why, but it was the case before I ever knew about the orbs issue--I was never quite convinced by what I read about the X10. The X20 has me nearly sold though, though I'm not sure how to convince my wife that it is worth the money...
     
  6. FlyDog

    FlyDog FujiXspot Rookie

    23
    Feb 5, 2013
    Tolland, CT
    Bob G
    I still count the M2 as a lucky find: a 20 year old camera for a little under the cost of a new Nikon F3. My girlfriend thought I was nuts! Maybe with some justification :rolleyes: But seriously, a good zoom finder is more to my taste than the fixed mag. with frame-lines except for the fixed mag's widest lens.
     
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  7. BBW

    BBW Super Moderator Subscribing Member

    Feb 8, 2013
    NW corner of CT
    BB
    I hear what you're saying, hellwill.

    I wear progressive lenses and would be lost without my glasses. That said, I almost never use my X10's viewfinder, or if I have I can guess it has been less than 5 times.... Yet, I often if not always use my X100's EVF and not so often use its OVF. Perhaps it's a matter of what's most comfortable? I will say that having a viewfinder of some sort is preferable to not having one especially if one's in super bright sunlight... Some of us "of a certain age" have to wear sunglasses when in any sort of sunlight. Heck I wear my polarized lenses when I'm outside almost all the time.
     
  8. crsnydertx

    crsnydertx FujiXspot Regular Subscribing Member

    94
    Feb 4, 2013
    Houston, TX
    Chuck
    I'm of the same mindset as the OP: a camera without a viewfinder is pretty much out of the question for me - except for my go-everywhere iPhone. Now I'm getting even more picky as my eyes (and the rest of me) deteriorate - I'm developing a strong preference for an optical viewfinder and am finding some of the electronic viewfinders to be tough to use effectively. The X100 dual finder is outstanding IMHO; the X20 with its information view looks like it will be a great option too.

    BB, maybe if I had those progressive lenses, I'd see things differently....do you think they make a conservative version of the lenses?! ;)
     
  9. BBW

    BBW Super Moderator Subscribing Member

    Feb 8, 2013
    NW corner of CT
    BB
    Oh no, Chuck - progressives are strictly forbidden to go conservative.:shhh: :laugh1:
     
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  10. hellwill

    hellwill FujiXspot Rookie

    19
    Feb 5, 2013
    William Heller
    Nice to see I'm not the only one. I suspected as much. There's something about technology and the folks who love it that ignores, well, me and people like me. :( I feel the same way whenever people rave about iPads or other tablets for reading--if I read anything requiring real attention, like a book or an academic paper, on one of those things my vision starts to dance, and not in a good way. I need glasses to read and use the computer, or (a different pair) to watch a movie, but not for everyday walking around, so the LCD screens are problematic (not impossible, as BBW makes clear, but not good enough not to need the viewfinder). An EVF might be fine, I've not had enough (or any, actually) experience with one to know, but it's also not on the menu of available alternatives.
     
  11. EBC Wilson

    EBC Wilson FujiXspot Regular

    100
    Feb 20, 2013
    Hellwill, I, too, am a photo enthusiast of a certain (bifocaled !) age, and my X10 with its' variable diopter has been just fine for me. I have older cameras that I no longer can see thru well enough to be confident using with their fixed mag viewing. I certainly expect the X20 has carried this over, even more important as it now has info displays in the VF: The X10 finder is great, but blank. It reminds me of using those hot-shoe finders for wide angles, or if you're even older, looking through the Rolleiflex hood and its' Speedfinder, instead of the ground glass.

    Plus the X20 is running that 'back+forth' sensor that moves the view from the rear LCD to the viewfinder when you put it to your eye; in the 20's case this will turn on whatever display overlay you selected and kill the rear LCD while it's up to your eye. I have this feature on my X-S1, and it's idiot-proof (it works for me, so it must be . . . .).

    I was less than excited by the prospect of an EVF, but after having the XS for a while now, in this case, it's fabulous, and for me better than a real prism/mirror setup.
     
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  12. crsnydertx

    crsnydertx FujiXspot Regular Subscribing Member

    94
    Feb 4, 2013
    Houston, TX
    Chuck
    The X20 manual (page 4) says that the camera is equipped with diopter adjustment. It doesn't specify the +/- range.
     
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  13. depscribe

    depscribe FujiXspot Regular

    82
    Feb 17, 2013
    photoblogger's spec sheet lists adjustment as going from -3 to +1.
     
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  14. hellofromelo

    hellofromelo New to FujiXspot

    3
    Feb 22, 2013
    I haven't seen here any mention of what I consider the single most obvious answer to complaints about the X10 viewfinder. I bought the premium version of the Clearviewer after receiving my X10 back in Nov. 2011 and shooting with it for a day or so. Consider:

    1. The CV gives you a 100 percent view of the LCD, with all grids and whatever shooting info you choose to display. Confers enhanced previsualization WRT composition, sharpness and judgment of color values.

    2. Complete focusing information, including focus confirmation.

    3. Provides considerable deterrence against LCD glare from bright sunlight, as your face pressed against the CV shades the glass. While admittedly the CV cannot confer the full glare suppression of an optical viewfinder, your free hand used as a visor is effective in most cases; wearing a baseball cap or a hat takes care of all but the most extreme instances of annoying outdoor reflections.

    4. Pressing the CV against your eye and cheek confers the same degree of stability as viewfinder shooting. The trick is to tighten the CV adjustment screws occasionally so as to maintain the right amount of resistance against your face.

    5. CV is light and easily removable, folds flat against the LCD when not in use, and adds very little in terms of camera profile. About the only drawback I can mention is that you can't use an everready case together with mounted CV.

    There are two versions available. The tripod-mount version is IMO preferable. More information: clearviewer.com
     
  15. afkenner

    afkenner FujiXspot Regular

    190
    Feb 3, 2013
    New York
    Adam
    Order placed, thank you. Can't wait to try it on the X20!
     
  16. speedandstyle

    speedandstyle FujiXspot Regular

    I can't live without a viewfinder! Well I can but I don't enjoy shooting without one. I don't mind the electronic VFs but do prefer optical at least in low light conditions. I hate holding the camera out, at arm's length to frame a shot. If I am on a tripod the rear LCD isn't too bad but handholding, forget it!