What can we expect from the next gen of X-Mount cameras?

Discussion in 'Fuji X-Mount Cameras' started by theSUBVERSIVE, Feb 8, 2013.

  1. theSUBVERSIVE

    theSUBVERSIVE New to FujiXspot

    3
    Feb 8, 2013
    What I've seen so far is that Fuji has a commitment towards their X-series that I've not seen from any other camera manufacturer. With each new camera, they've been addressing problems from the previous - and better, based on consumers feedback and not just from their imagination of marketing will - and more than that, they are not compromising quality over nothing. Their approach toward the lenses selection, the roadmap, the quality, it's astonishing. While Sony is still struggling to give the consumers the lenses they want, the new kid, Fuji, is already bringing all the main primes - and their zoom lens is well above the usual "kit" quality and aperture. And Sony's first E-mount camera was launched almost 3 years ago already.

    Fuji has been very active with firmware updates, the X-E1 got better AF speed, which was translated to the X-PRO1 as well, but as it wasn't really on par with the competition, the X100s and X20 are - on paper - very, very quick. They've been fine tuning the button layout and other interface issues, they even got a 1080p60 for the new cameras. The X-Trans sensor is such a nice innovation, as well as the split-focus. Not only they are addressing problems as they are always bringing something new.

    I was surprised by the 1080p60 video feat, I didn't think they would be able to bring that just yet, for me, based on every other system way of improving things, I thought that it would only be addressed in the next generation. Of course, we are yet to know about the quality, resolution, moiré, etc. But nonetheless the 1080p60 36mbps codec - AVCHD 2.0 are 28mbps, not that pure bit-rate numbers can tell which is better but -, it shows that they're listening and trying to improve, which, for me, counts a lot. I just wish they implemented the ability to have full manual controls over the video parameters. I say that because although I don't expect a GH3-like video quality, for me, to get into the X-Mount cameras, I need at least Sony NEX-like video quality. I know, I know, it's not in their priorities but hopefully it's on their upcoming improvements.

    The X100s seems to finally solve the AF speed "problem" with the Hybrid AF and the new EXR II processor, since it was something that was preventing a lot of people from adventuring in the X-Mount cameras - but the good thing is that for everybody else that already love their X-cameras, this is a big plus. Many questioned why did they release the new processor and the new feats for the X100s and not for the X-E1. I agree that people would be less annoyed by that if there were at least a couple more months apart but it doesn't bother me as much and it's not even near what Canon has been doing with their line ups. If they had launched the X-E1 with these improvements, a lot of people wouldn't even consider the X-PRO1 and it would also affect the existence of the X100s since the 23mm for the X-Mount is coming soon. So I think I get it and it seems understandable for me.

    I don't know but I wonder if we can expect a new sensor for the next X-Mount cameras. The X-Trans sensor still seem to have an edge over the others and the RAW converter issue seems like a matter of time but as the accuracy of the ISO seems a bit off, when people out there are comparing with the other sensors, it seems that the edge is not as wider as Fuji claimed. So it would be nice to see this problem being solved and that the ISO performance could really be actually much better than the others. There are so many new technologies when it comes to sensor, I just wish Fuji can - yet again - come up with something refreshing.

    Fuji launched a P&S camera with WiFi capabilities, it's not a deal breaker or anything, but it would be nice to have WiFi in the next X-Cameras, it may look like just a gimmick, but I think it's very nice to have full control over your camera through your smartphone, to be able to take pictures, to record videos, to use your tablet as a monitor, etc. It's not a must have thing but it can really help some workflows depending on your needs and the type of photography you do, I imagine that it will be very nice for studio, for instance or when you need something on the go and you don't want to travel fully loaded. And also to have some fun using time-lapse and other casual situations.

    So I would love to see improved video capabilities and controls and it would be a big plus if they could add WiFi and a new sensor.
     
  2. BBW

    BBW Super Moderator Subscribing Member

    Feb 8, 2013
    NW corner of CT
    BB
    Welcome and thanks for your fully packed post. The idea of the WiFi capable camera *is great but what has become much more interesting to me of late - since I've been spending the majority of my time someplace without a computer and without hardwired or WiFi internet - is having very good cell phone connection and being able to upload directly. I've gotten to love using my iPhone to create and upload...and no doubt I'd have even more fun with an iPad - is the 3G or 4G capability of uploading directly to the Internet. I wonder if and when we'll be able to do this with a Fuji
     
  3. garylh

    garylh FujiXspot Regular

    71
    Feb 7, 2013
    I would love to c all the nice features from the x100s as everyone has already speculated, but on top of that

    - min. Shutter speed for auto iso
    - electronic shutter option, Ricoh gxr and Pentax q have it, makes for silent operation
    - 20-24mp, more for cropping then resolution purpose. I can be lazy and leave my 35f1.4 on the camera and crop for 75 or 90 perspective and still have a very usable shot for printing large.
    - 16f2 or 2.8 lens
    - all lens w/ the mf/af setup of the new 14 even if they have to re-issue the current lenses.
    - get rid of requirement that the Fuji m adapter is the only way to access aberration corrections

    Gary
     
  4. theSUBVERSIVE

    theSUBVERSIVE New to FujiXspot

    3
    Feb 8, 2013
    It would also be nice to have an electronic ND filter as well and this could create a way to differentiate a possible X-PRO2 from a X-E1 for instance.

    I know the X-cameras are not made for sports but with the increasing in fps, if they add a bigger buffer, these camera could very well be used for occasional sports shooting.

    @BBW

    Yeah, nowadays you can carry very light with just your phone and a tablet and still manage to do some quick edit on the go, it may not be ideal for some occasions but it can be very handy and extremely useful in others.

    @Gary

    I agree, the electronic shutter can be very nice, even more in a camera well suited for street photography like the X-cameras. Sure, in some situations with abrupt and quick movements it wouldn't work so well because of the rolling shutter but for most of situations it would be very nice. The Panasonic GH3 also has it and it has been well praised by having that. But Panasonic has been using electronic shutter for quite a while, but I think it's first time that this option comes to full resolution pics since those 40/20 fps burst were only possible in smaller files. Or was it possible with full resolution pics as well? I'm not sure.

    I'm still waiting for the global shutter on ILC, with that a all situation electronic shutter would be possible and even more, with higher speeds and better sync speeds with flash. Video would also benefit a lot from global shutter, but it doesn't seem like this will come so soon since with global shutter in a CMOS sensor you end up losing DR and ISO performance. Sony new CineAlta F55 has it and there were rumors saying that a future BMCC may also feature one so I guess it will take some time to come to ILC.

    As one of the trade offs for higher MP count is the higher pixel density and consecutively worse DR and high ISO performance, I would prefer to keep the 16MP and get a better overall IQ instead.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  5. garylh

    garylh FujiXspot Regular

    71
    Feb 7, 2013
    In the past I would tend to agree w/ u on higher issues w/ noise, but Fuji as proven to me tat they have a decent secret sauce here that not everyone has caught onto yet. Yes full frames cameras can do better, but IMHO Fuji is the king in apsc. I feel that 16mp sensor is just their first salvo to make apsc the de facto standard.. I feel they came into this game w/ at least 2 generations of sensor tech on the drawing board.. Anyway this is just MHO.

    Gary
     
  6. zapatista

    zapatista FujiXspot Regular

    130
    Feb 6, 2013
    Denver
    Mike
    I'm thinking there will be a 2 at the end of the model number.
     
  7. dixeyk

    dixeyk Guest

    The biggest thing that I would like to see before taking the plunge for the successor to the XE-1 (or the XE-1 if it could be added via firmware) is focus peaking. Being a manual focus legacy lens user I would really want that. Sp0lit focus would be nice but I have become very used to focus peaking on my NEX and I honestly can't imagine using legacy glass without it as an option.
     
  8. Lightmancer

    Lightmancer Super Moderator Subscribing Member

    Feb 2, 2013
    Sunny Frimley
    Bill Palmer
    I agree about focus peaking (for that I prefer the GXR), but I am trying M, R, LTM and Nikon glass on my E1 as I type. I shall post impressions when I can.

    Sent from another Galaxy
     
    • Like Like x 1
  9. Ray Sachs

    Ray Sachs FujiXspot Veteran

    485
    Feb 1, 2013
    Near Philadephila
    I think the X100 makes the future of the X-Pro and X-E1 pretty clear in terms of what they'll TRY to do in upcoming models. The only question I have is whether the much faster PDAF/CDAF hybrid auto-focus will work with the existing Fuji lenses. From what little I know of how PDAF works, its a calculation that goes to a point and doesn't require the back and forth experimentation to find the point of greatest contrast (as with CDAF). So that should theoretically make even lenses with slow, external focus motors fastER than with pure CDAF. But whether it really makes them FAST or not is an open question. The reports of the X100 that I've seen from those who've used it at shows is that its VERY fast - on par with the OMD and modern lenses. One guy even went so far as to say it "smoked" the OMD, which I find kind of hilarious, because once something is THAT fast, something else may be measurably faster, but nothing smokes AF as fast as the OMD. Its not like you can discern the different between AF that takes 1/100 of a second and AF that takes 1/200 of a second. They both just happen right NOW... I don't expect the ILC to ever be that fast with the current lenses. And frankly I don't care. I'm OK with the 18 as it is and it won't take much improvement to make the 35 more than fast enough. But some may find that to be a problem. And I could be wrong - if they can make these lenses really fast with the hybrid AF, that'll be a really impressive and nice thing.

    -Ray
     
    • Like Like x 2
  10. carlb

    carlb FujiXspot Veteran

    268
    Feb 6, 2013
    twin cities, minnesota
    Carl
    Or perhaps the new digital split image focusing (somewhat akin to rangefinder focusing) that will be on the X100s. Requires the phase detection on sensor, So, it would definitely have to be an "X-E1s" or an X-E2" camera. Sigh! No firmware update to get that cool feature. :(
     
  11. theSUBVERSIVE

    theSUBVERSIVE New to FujiXspot

    3
    Feb 8, 2013
    The focus peaking may or may not happen. If Panasonic's claim is accurate, you have to have that inside the processor calculations to make it work properly or you have to emulate that through software and that wouldn't be optimal - they were talking about adding focus peaking to the GH3 via firmware update. So unless the first gen EXR processor has it already, the chances of the X-PRO1 and X-E1 getting that via firmware update gets lower and possibly, it would only work with the EXR II. As it was said before, split focus is something you can only get through the PDAF and as both X-PRO1 and X-E1 doesn't have that in the sensor, it's not possible.

    When people talk about the Canon EF Lenses and adapters on mirrorless cameras, they say it can't AF as fast as a Canon's cameras because they don't have the PDAF so I wonder if they make an adapter for the NEX-5R and NEX-6 which have the PDAF, can they manage to get it to AF faster? I'm saying that because the EOS-M camera from Canon itself does have the PDAF and it's said that the camera is very slow even with the official Canon's adapter.
     
  12. Armanius

    Armanius FujiXspot Top Veteran

    691
    Feb 1, 2013
    Texas
    Muttley
    Native ISO 80
    1/8000 max shutter speed
    More user assignable custom function buttons

    (more like a wish list, than what I expect)
     
  13. landshark

    landshark Fujiman

    208
    Feb 1, 2013
    SoCal
    I am pretty happy with the XPro the way it is, maybe faster real burst rate when in single fire mode.
    I am with Ray I do not know how much faster the present lens af motors can get with redoing the lenses
     
  14. Bernie Ess

    Bernie Ess FujiXspot Rookie

    13
    Feb 11, 2013
    In my opinion the entire system (software/ 3rd party support, lenses, accessories, the camera itself with it's sensor, firmware and body specs) is more important than single camera features.
    The hardware of the Fuji X is already very good (although I find that the constant comparisons with full frame cameras do not contribute to a realistic perception of what the camera really is), but the real appeal will slowly and continually grow when...

    - the lenses as announced in the roadmap - and some more - will be released (hopefully within the time frame), and if they are in the same class as the 14mm, 35mm and the 60mm...
    - RAW conversion issues will hopefully be ironed out and the missing translation of in-camera film simulations to the computer (from RAW) will come,
    - missing firmware features like the continually asked for minimum shutter speed limit in auto ISO, and others will be implemented (and not kept back for future models)

    The whole image of this is more important than the question whether the next X will have 20 or 24MP, better high ISO etc. Obviously few users will vote against a faster, hybrid AF tech, a better EVF with faster refresh rate etc.

    So far Fuji seems to be more dedicated to the X line that they were to their DSLR line, for obvious reasons (their DSLRs were a very difficult business model with no aftersales in lenses, accessories etc).

    VoilĂ  my opinion....

    Best,
    Bernie