X10/X20: My experience and some questions

Discussion in 'Fuji X10, X20, X30, XF1, and X-S1' started by pharaviel, Apr 22, 2013.

  1. pharaviel

    pharaviel FujiXspot Regular

    32
    Apr 16, 2013
    Reggio Emilia, Italy
    Daniele Frizzi
    Hello everyone!
    I've selfishly opened a topic about my short experience with the Fuji X10 because I have some things to ask and other to say out loud.
    (please excuse my crappy english, usually I keep my posts short for this).

    I'm new to the Fuji X system but not to the brand itself and its peculiar sensors (I used an S5pro with nikon primes as my "flagship" camera from september 2008 until may 2012, when I bought the OMD) and I just bought a used X100 (490 euros versus 1200 of a new X100s) and looking for a X10-X20 to use with it.

    Why a X100? Why a X10? Well... It all started a couple of years ago, I was diagnosed with a disease at my right eye (my "camera eye" since than) and I found really difficult to use the optical viewfinder of a reflex camera with my glasses (this defect can't be fully compensated with glasses or contacts).
    I went into M43 (I really love the system) with an PL2 and later with the OMD, I learned to use my left eye and I find really easier to use the EVF with my right eye too.

    This said, I really loved my Fuji camera and I tried an old rangefinder film camera which was really comfortable to me while using glasses. When I found the X100 (and I was able to use it for a couple of minutes in a shop) it was instant love: optical viewfinder with info, almost pocketable size, FUJI! I waited for a good price and I got it.


    Now, after the boring intro, let's go to the topic: I want to buy a X10-X20.
    My thoughts are:
    :D PRO: I suffer form the usual photographer virus (it's Xas for X series or Fas for Fuji?:p). I just "dumped" a Panasonic G2 and a GF1 for the X100 I bought, so I don't really mind another camera (I would get back at the number I had before).
    :confused: MIXED: I can't have a GOOD tele converter lens for X100, and I would like something between 50-75mm. I don't mind to get a compact camera, if the quality (both image and build) is that good.
    :D PRO: It would become my carry-everywhere-camera.
    :( CONS: Price. But I can rationalize it as "it costs just the double of the X100 wide lens, and has tele too".
    :D PRO: I like to have similar products. I had two nokia phones, and two android phones. I dumped my nikon-fuji system after my first m43 because i didn't want a different-mount second body. I like the X100 and I would not get a sony compact camera to go with it. At the same time, if I wanted an aps mirrorless camera, I would go for an XE1, not a sony nex or samsung or canon.
    :( CONS: After using the X100 for one week, I have some problems with the X10-20 controls. I would have liked an aperture control at the base of the lens and shutter speed dial instead of a mode dial. More "pro", more old style, more coherent with the bigger sisters (I believe modes could be as well implemented on the shutter-speed dial).

    For now, I believe I'm going for an X20 (I really want info in the viewfinder and better raw support) in a few months.

    I really didn't ask questions, I'm sorry. But if you have experiences you want to share with me, I'll be happy to read them!

    PS: sorry for the long post! I leave you with a quick photoshop of my dream x camera: X20-sized-shaped-and-sensored camera with fixed 53mm eq. lens 1.8 and hybrid VF.
    lol2.
     
  2. Armanius

    Armanius FujiXspot Top Veteran

    691
    Feb 1, 2013
    Texas
    Muttley
    The X10 is still a great camera! Before my dad permanently borrowed my X10, I enjoyed carrying the X10 and the X100 together. Other than long telephoto. I had all bases covered, including the occasions I wanted to have a higher quality file or shallower DOF.
     
  3. pharaviel

    pharaviel FujiXspot Regular

    32
    Apr 16, 2013
    Reggio Emilia, Italy
    Daniele Frizzi
    My only reasons to get the 20 are info in the viewfinder and better raw support. I'm already pretty happy with the fuji X10 image quality.

    Sent from my Nexus 7 using FujiXspot mobile app
     
  4. Lawrence A.

    Lawrence A. FujiXspot Veteran

    409
    Jan 31, 2013
    Albuquerque, NM
    I think your dream camera is going to remain a dream. The X10/X20 class camera will continue to have a convenient zoom from reasonably wide to medium telephoto, and with a zoom control on the lens, which most people who use the camera like, fitting an aperture ring would be a difficulty I doubt Fuji wants to take on. We have to accept the fact that it is an advanced compact camera, well designed to attract serious photographers while still retaining the things point and shooters require -- the zoom being first among them.

    The X20 is a great camera. Check out the X20 image thread here, where Silvano has posted some terrific shots. I find the solution to the shutter speed/aperture control really much better than many cameras, including the Pens, which I nonetheless like a lot.
     
  5. Armanius

    Armanius FujiXspot Top Veteran

    691
    Feb 1, 2013
    Texas
    Muttley
    Shooting info and focus confirmation on the X20 is also (for me) the biggest selling point.
     
  6. carlb

    carlb FujiXspot Veteran

    268
    Feb 6, 2013
    twin cities, minnesota
    Carl
    For the X20, shoot at low ISO (100-200) for the best results. Still, don't expect image quality in the same class as the X100. If you're OK with that (I usually am), then the X20 is a great camera and really fun to shoot.
     
  7. Lawrence A.

    Lawrence A. FujiXspot Veteran

    409
    Jan 31, 2013
    Albuquerque, NM
    As a caveat to Carl's comments, I'd shoot the X20 freely up to 800 IF you are doing your own raw processing. I've shot successfully (for smaller prints -8x10 and under) up to 1600. The higher iso's require careful handling in a good raw converter.

    I've heard the advice to shoot at 400 and below, but my own experience is that it applies only to jpegs (which aren't nearly as good as those from the x10)

    Here are two files the first at 400 iso, the second at 800 (larger versions available if you click on the image)
    [​IMG]

    and one at 800
    [​IMG]

    For my money 800 iso looks perfect good from a decent raw file.
     
  8. pharaviel

    pharaviel FujiXspot Regular

    32
    Apr 16, 2013
    Reggio Emilia, Italy
    Daniele Frizzi
    Yeah, I believe X20 pros (iq, handling, optical viewfinder) beats the cons I found...


    Thank you both! I used the X10 and I'm already ok with the image quality, so I will not have any problem for that.
    I don't use JPG much (I use it only if I'm out with just my ipad) and I don't mind noise until it becomes color noise. I can live with luminance noise just fine (I don't usually print large sizes) and if the noise gets too much, I just convert to B/W.
     
  9. Lawrence A.

    Lawrence A. FujiXspot Veteran

    409
    Jan 31, 2013
    Albuquerque, NM
    I feel the same way about noise. I can tolerate a fair amount of luminance noise, but find chroma noise intolerable. Fortunately Lightroom handles color noise very effectively.
     
  10. flysurfer

    flysurfer X-Pert

    Feb 1, 2013
    Nuremberg
    Rico Pfirstinger
    Wirh Adobe's improbd RAW support, I find that it is possible to use the X10 in HR mode and pull lots of DR from the highlights. So the differences between the X10 and X20 become even smaller.
     
  11. Streetshooter

    Streetshooter FujiXspot Regular

    47
    Feb 8, 2013
    This is true for the most part. With LR 4.4 and now 5.0, the X10 files are somewhat workable. On the other hand...the X20 has come to life. I am a RAW shooter and sold the X10 because it wasn't. Happily enough the X20 is a nice raw shooter.
     
  12. onreb

    onreb FujiXspot Regular

    40
    Mar 12, 2013
    Yes, the latest ACR/LR support very well the X10 files. Only thing, you have to adjust the default sharpening, which is not working very well with the EXR sensor.
    The only one truly important difference between X10 and X20 is that the best from the X10 comes out at 6MPx.
    If looking for good DR, I suspect the X10 (at 6MPx) is a bit better than the X20.
    But the X20 files are 12MPx, and its 12MPx are better than the 12MPx you can squeeze out of the X10.
     
  13. onreb

    onreb FujiXspot Regular

    40
    Mar 12, 2013
    As I suggested in the previous post, "somewhat" is the right word if you try to squeeze 12MPx out of the X10 sensor.
    At 6MPx ACR and LR fully support the EXR capabilities.
    I understand these are not the times to tell people to be happy with 6MPx, but those from the X10 are outstanding 6MPx files.
    Me I'm becoming an old fart who remembers with fondness the quality of those ancient CCD sensors. Some of my old E-1 files (5 MPx) look greater than I remembered when I look at them now that I'm used to the contemporary pixel-crammed mudness...