X20 has arrived -- initial thoughts

Discussion in 'Fuji X10, X20, X30, XF1, and X-S1' started by depscribe, Mar 22, 2013.

  1. depscribe

    depscribe FujiXspot Regular

    82
    Feb 17, 2013
    So the nice man in the big brown truck came by and left me a nice new X20, which I've set up and played with just a bit. What I've learned so far:

    -- If you are switching from an X10 and do not want a conflict in filenames, format an SD card (in either camera), put it in the X10 and take a picture. What it is or even if it is any good doesn't matter -- you're seeking the filename and number. Take the card out of the X10 and put it in the X20 and take a picture. (And, of course, set the numbering to be continuous in the menu.) Now, you can do whatever you want -- reformat the card, whatever -- you've set the number at one past where you were on the X10. Of course, if you plan to shoot both, you've accomplished nothing, because you'll still get filename conflicts.

    -- A fairly major annoyance: The focus box in the viewfinder comes up only *after* focus has been achieved. I'd prefer to have it for planning rather than confirmation purposes.

    -- Another fairly major annoyance that I hope is a bug because then they'll fix it. As it is on my X10, when I take a picture, it comes up on the otherwise darm LCD (albeit in the magnified mode) so that I can glance down to confirm that I got the picture. I have not found a way to make this happen with the X20; the menu settings are OVF/LCD/that silly eye thing -- the first thing I turned off on my X100. If you set it to LCD, the LCD is on all the time. If you set it to OVF, nothing you can do will make the LCD stay on for more than a second or so. If you set it to the eye proximity detector thing, the LCD is on except when you have the camera mashed against your face. I know Fuji is proud of the eye detector (though I do not know why). But with it set to provide the OVF only, the only way you can review your pictures is to go into playback mode. This is insanity. The way it *should* work is there be a setting wherein you take a picture. The picture appears on the LCD so you can look down and see if you got it. Then you press the shutter halfway and the LCD turns off. (This is even how it works through the viewfinder on the X100 -- take a picture and immediately see, though through the EVF portion of the viewfinder now, even if you've been using the straight viewfinder -- your picture until you give it a half press.) This is a simple software fix, and I sure hope they do it, unless they're desperate to drum up business for the aftermarket cheapo battery makers.

    -- The camera seems a little heavier and more robust than the X10. Sturdier. I haven't put 'em on the scale and I could be wrong, but it seems so.

    I still wish there were a way to make the OVF display light up -- at least the focus box -- before the thing is focused. I'd rather tell it what to focus on than learn what it has focused on.

    Now to make some pictures!
     
  2. flysurfer

    flysurfer X-Pert

    Feb 1, 2013
    Nuremberg
    Rico Pfirstinger
    So you blame Fuji because the camera can't see the future? Seriously? :)

    If you want to see which AF field you have selected (which of course isn't the AF area the camera will actually focus on due to parallax error), why don't you simply press the AF-L button for a second? This will show that frame in blue.
     
  3. depscribe

    depscribe FujiXspot Regular

    82
    Feb 17, 2013
    No, but if it wants to keep the LCD live . . .

    . . . they could keep the finder display live, and let the focus confirmation come via color change. They could fix this in firmware. It already exists in the otherwise pretty much identical OVF in the X100. It is absurd they didn't do it with the X20. Never occurred to me that they might not. Per typical Fuji, the camera will be fine by the second firmware update.

    The finder window is so close to the lens, and finder coverage sufficiently dimished, that the only place parallax is an issue is in macro, which forces the LCD on anyway.
     
  4. flysurfer

    flysurfer X-Pert

    Feb 1, 2013
    Nuremberg
    Rico Pfirstinger
    They are already using all three colors (red, blue and green) of the display for different things. If you want to see a reminder of the field you selected, press the AF-L button.
     
  5. flysurfer

    flysurfer X-Pert

    Feb 1, 2013
    Nuremberg
    Rico Pfirstinger
    Funny statement, given that the error is quite visible. The camera is actually correcting it by showing different frames. The offest can easily be as large as 1 full frame down and 1/2 frame to the right. For anything closer (way before macro, maybe something like 1 meter), the camera displays the parallax error warning and doesn't display an AF frame at all in the OVF.
     
  6. depscribe

    depscribe FujiXspot Regular

    82
    Feb 17, 2013
    With all due respect, pushing a button to see the focus area is absurd. There is no reason on God's green earth why there is no option to have the finder display on when the camera is on, as there is for the LCD. Which is why they did it with the X100.
     
  7. speedandstyle

    speedandstyle FujiXspot Regular

    Glad to hear your UPS guy isn't a butterfingers! I got a new printer on Monday and UPS had dropped the package at some point. Luckily the only things busted were two of the ink cartridge mount tabs. B&H was kind enough to send me replacements and give $25 credit for my trouble.

    I agree that there should be an option to give a second or two view of your shot on the rear LCD. Having it run all the time is hard on batteries.

    What do you not like about the eye-detector? I think it is a great idea. My worry is that since I wear glasses it may not recognize that I have it up to my face.

    What you want isn't so much a pre-focus box as a framing grid? I have never seen a camera show where focus would be before the fact. Some models with C-AF have a box that follows along with the subject and most face recognition also has a box that follow any faces in the frame.
     
  8. flysurfer

    flysurfer X-Pert

    Feb 1, 2013
    Nuremberg
    Rico Pfirstinger
    The X100 has a hybrid overlay with pixels do draw anything. The X20 only has a fixed grid.

    Personally, I prefer not to see useless information like a selected AF field the camera is most likely NOT focussing on due to parallax error. The blue frame is not the focus area, it's just the selected AF field. The focus area may be somewhere else, it shows once you half-press the shutter and get focus lock on a target. I prefer to see the actual focus position. If it fits, great. If not, I reframe and try again.

    I am also pretty sure Fuji would get swamped with "bug reports" from users who complain about the camera not focusing on the selected AF frame but somewhere else.

    Fuji could include always showing the selected AF field as an option in a future firmware update. But I guess, 80% of the compact camera target audience wouldn't get it, anyway. People tend to be confused by parallax error.
     
  9. depscribe

    depscribe FujiXspot Regular

    82
    Feb 17, 2013
    Did you ever use a 35mm rangefinder or viewfinder camera? Except for M-series Leicas and a couple of Canons and the Nikon SP, none of 'em had parallax correction, and their finder windows were far distant from the lens. What's more, there was no parallax-related focus issue.

    In the digital world we have the X100. Its focus box is much smaller as a percentage of the frame than that of the X20. Yet even set to its smallest size, the parallax box never leaves the fixed box that is displayed pre-focus. I repeat, parallax is not an issue with the X20.
     
  10. flysurfer

    flysurfer X-Pert

    Feb 1, 2013
    Nuremberg
    Rico Pfirstinger
    So you claim that the parallax correction displayed in the X20 doesn't really exist? We are all dreaming?
     
  11. flysurfer

    flysurfer X-Pert

    Feb 1, 2013
    Nuremberg
    Rico Pfirstinger
    Of course there is no focus issue if the camera doesn't have AF. :clap2:
     
  12. depscribe

    depscribe FujiXspot Regular

    82
    Feb 17, 2013
    Have you ever looked through the finder of an X100? I do not mean the EVF but the optical viewfinder. The focus area is visible all the time the camera is on. When focus is locked, it turns green. Simple.

    As to the other issue, ideally the just-shot picture remains on the LCD for a second or two, but until the shutter is half pressed. That way, you can look at the picture without moving either hand.
     
  13. flysurfer

    flysurfer X-Pert

    Feb 1, 2013
    Nuremberg
    Rico Pfirstinger
    Nope. The X100 shows two different focus areas (infinity and MFD), and a third (parallax corrected) one in green once there's a focus lock. Not simple at all for many users, it's actually a topic of major confusion, as Ray has just elaborated in his thread: https://www.fujixspot.com/showthread.php?741-Using-corrected-framelines-in-the-X100-X-Pro-OVF
     
  14. Ray Sachs

    Ray Sachs FujiXspot Veteran

    485
    Feb 1, 2013
    Near Philadephila
    I haven't seen the X20 yet, so don't know exactly what the question is. But the OP seems to be suggesting that the X100 (and X-Pro and X100s I presume) that the actual AF box is shown in the OVF before locking AF. And, if I'm reading that correctly, it's just wrong. With the "corrected framelines" option turned on, it shows two focus boxes that accounts for the range of possible locations. Once AF lock is achieved, then it shows a green box somewhere within that range to show where the actual AF point is. But it's a calculated, after the fact, AF box, not a predictive one. As it sounds like the X20 does as well, but without the benefit of the double boxes to define the range of possible locations.

    Apologies if I'm misreading this, but that's how it appeared.

    -Ray
     
  15. depscribe

    depscribe FujiXspot Regular

    82
    Feb 17, 2013
    No, i am saying that it is not an issue. And i expect a firmware update will turn it off. Just as one can do with the X100. In fact, with the X100, the default is for it to be off.

    Additionally, the focus area in the X20 tends to move up and down and change shape for reasons unrelated to parallax. Which is an abomination imho.
     
  16. flysurfer

    flysurfer X-Pert

    Feb 1, 2013
    Nuremberg
    Rico Pfirstinger
    Exactly. There's no room for double boxes or in-between boxes in the X20 OVF with its fixed grid, so the camera is using different means to indicate in-between box parallax correction, as illustrated in my article on Fujirumors. Unfortunately, the owner's manual doesn't really cover parallax error, that's why I felt it would be useful to step up and explain the different forms and sizes of X20 AF frames.
     
  17. flysurfer

    flysurfer X-Pert

    Feb 1, 2013
    Nuremberg
    Rico Pfirstinger
    The only reason is parallax correction. Quite simple. Your statement is plain wrong.
     
  18. depscribe

    depscribe FujiXspot Regular

    82
    Feb 17, 2013
    Not exactly. In the X20 there is *no* indication of selected focus area -- never mind a corrected one -- until the shutter is half pressed. In fact, until the shutter is half pressed, the finder differs not at all from that of the X10.

    You'll note that with the X100, you can turn off corrected frames but you cannot turn off the always-there box. There is no always there box in the OVF of the X20, and it is this omission to which I object.
     
  19. depscribe

    depscribe FujiXspot Regular

    82
    Feb 17, 2013
    Um, no. In some cases it becomes a vertical box incorporating the original centrally located box, only double in size. In other cases it becomes twice as wide as the original box. This is not parallax correction.
     
  20. flysurfer

    flysurfer X-Pert

    Feb 1, 2013
    Nuremberg
    Rico Pfirstinger
    Of course it is. But obviously, you are unwilling to read my article on Fujirumors explaining it. So anyway, good luck with your X20.