XE1 auto iso is perfect

Discussion in 'Fuji X-Mount Cameras' started by Ifocus, Feb 22, 2013.

  1. Ifocus

    Ifocus New to FujiXspot

    6
    Feb 3, 2013
    I have shooting with the XE1 for about a month. I am finding Fuji Auto Iso implementation perfectly fine;

    1. Set the camera auto iso, I like auto 6400.
    2. If depth of field is less important, shoot in S priority mode by setting your shutter speed. The camera will choose f stop and iso to match the exposure.
    3. If depth of field is important like shooting landscape, set the Shutter speed and the f stop, you are now shooting in M mode but the camera will still adjust ISO to expose properly.

    Unless I am missing something, this is really simple and you are in full control of the camera.
    Is my method correct?

    Cheers
     
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  2. ean10775

    ean10775 FujiXspot Top Veteran

    885
    Feb 13, 2013
    Cleveland, OH
    Eric
    I don't think any one way of shooting is more or less correct than another. I never would have considered your method of using Auto ISO with manual aperture and shutter speed, but yea that would seem to work if you want to ensure a certain shutter speed.
     
  3. flysurfer

    flysurfer X-Pert

    Feb 1, 2013
    Nuremberg
    Rico Pfirstinger
    Auto-ISO is quite subpar, for reasons that have been discussed many, many, many, many times over and over and over again since February 2012. Fuji should learn from Pentax or Sony (RX1), they offer a better way of handling this. Luckily, this is not rocket science, so there is hope and it dies last. :)

    I'll certainly raise the topic on my upcoming meeting with an X-series developer.
     
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  4. Ray Sachs

    Ray Sachs FujiXspot Veteran

    485
    Feb 1, 2013
    Near Philadephila
    Yes, you can use auto-ISO with manual control of aperture and shutter speed, but you cannot use the exposure compensation adjustment to compensate for things like backlighting, heavy shadows, etc. You can use exposure comp with aperture priority, but you cannot set the minimum shutter speed, as you could with the X100 and evidently will be able to do with the X100s.

    So auto ISO can be useful when you don't need to control both shutter speed and exposure compensation, but not when you do.

    -Ray
     
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  5. BBW

    BBW Super Moderator Subscribing Member

    Feb 8, 2013
    NW corner of CT
    BB
    Aha, thanks for pointing this out Ray....I kept scratching my head.
     
  6. drewbot

    drewbot FujiXspot Regular

    138
    Feb 1, 2013
    Toronto
    What is frustrating is that the X100 has a minimum shutter speed that was programmable. Not so much with the X-E1...
     
  7. Ray Sachs

    Ray Sachs FujiXspot Veteran

    485
    Feb 1, 2013
    Near Philadephila
    Nor the X-Pro. Nor, IIRC (but my memory may be off here) the X10. Which means they thought it was a good enough idea to put it in the X100 (albeit with a weird and difficult implementation), not good enough for the higher end X-Pro and X-E1 or lower end X10, but then good enough again for the X100s (this time with an awesome and wonderful implementation!). I'm having trouble following Fuji's logic here.

    I should note that I'm just pointing this out - I don't really find it to be a problem. I tend to only use auto-ISO when I'm not overly concerned about shutter speed and I use manual ISO when I need to keep an eye on both aperture and shutter speed. I do it this way even on the Ricoh GXR, which does allow full manual auto ISO with exposure comp. So I'm not complaining for me. But many seem to find this to be a real problem and with the ISO range of modern cameras like the X-Pro / XE-1, there's no reason not to get it right.

    -Ray
     
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  8. Armanius

    Armanius FujiXspot Top Veteran

    691
    Feb 1, 2013
    Texas
    Muttley
    The auto ISO logic doesn't work for me on A mode. An implementation like the newer Nikons or the Pentax K5 would work much better.

    Hope Rico works his magic!
     
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  9. Ifocus

    Ifocus New to FujiXspot

    6
    Feb 3, 2013
    Auto ISO in manual mode

    Yes you are absolutely right, this is what I was missing. Hence auto ISO in M mode is just a work around but not the entire meal. Thanks for pointing this out
     
  10. crsnydertx

    crsnydertx FujiXspot Regular Subscribing Member

    94
    Feb 4, 2013
    Houston, TX
    Chuck
    Not in X10, but - according to the manual - implemented in X20.
     
  11. Armanius

    Armanius FujiXspot Top Veteran

    691
    Feb 1, 2013
    Texas
    Muttley
    Having a minimum shutter speed is not particular helpful for a zoom lens though. In addition to that, I like Pentax's auto ISO logic of allowing the user to choose between slow, normal and fast shutter speeds. Average is using the 1/EFL rule.
     
  12. flysurfer

    flysurfer X-Pert

    Feb 1, 2013
    Nuremberg
    Rico Pfirstinger
    And then there's also OIS on or off...
     
  13. Bernie Ess

    Bernie Ess FujiXspot Rookie

    13
    Feb 11, 2013
    Very far from "perfectly fine".
    Yes you can set aperture and shutter speed, but this mainly works in low light, in bright light the pre-set shutter speed will be too slow to work well at ISO200. Specially when light is changing quickly between shots, you will have to adapt your method all the time. If you don't work with fixed shutter speed, the Auto ISO mode will set slowish shutter times like 1/30s for the 18mm lens, or 1/52s for the 35mm lens. Not fast enough for images with moving subjects, and often enough also not for really sharp images/ camera shake.

    Another disadvantage of setting everything manually is that you cannot set exposure compensation to deal with very dark or bright scenes. The camera will then always record with +/ - 0EV. The 7 year old Fuji S5 pro was able to do all that perfectly, like every Nikon camera since 2006 or 07.

    Maximum (longest) shutter speed in auto ISO plus exposure comp is a fix that is probably done in a few dozen lines of code, a shame that FUji goes back behind the level of 2008. They are not the only one, Canon has also a poor tradition of ridiculous implementation of Auto ISO.

    I contacted Fujifilm and politely suggested to deliver that/ those 2 firmware fixes. They were very quick to answer (Tokyo asked Fuji Germany to contact me), so they basically are aware that customers are better be treated well, but the answer was in the lines of "it may not be possible to implement all asked features".

    cheers
    Bernie
     
  14. crsnydertx

    crsnydertx FujiXspot Regular Subscribing Member

    94
    Feb 4, 2013
    Houston, TX
    Chuck
    I guess I don't understand why you need exposure compensation with Manual mode. In my way of thinking, exposure compensation is a tool used to override an automatic exposure setting in P, A, or S mode; if you didn't have the EC adjustment, you'd be stuck with whatever the automatic metering system gave you. However, in M, you're making the decisions about aperture and shutter speed; if you need "compensation", you merely change the shutter speed or aperture to give you the desired EV based on your own analysis of the lighting conditions. You yourself are the compensation, and your tools are the aperture ring and shutter speed dial.
     
  15. joeradza

    joeradza FujiXspot Regular

    76
    Feb 22, 2013
    First of all, hello to Fuji-ites. My first post. Totally agree with you Chuck but, I think you're about to get hammered. All the threads seem to indicate that most users want EC with manual control. Don't know why. As implemented on X100 works perfectly.

    Joe
     
  16. crsnydertx

    crsnydertx FujiXspot Regular Subscribing Member

    94
    Feb 4, 2013
    Houston, TX
    Chuck
    Thanks, Joe - and welcome! I guess my thinking is that if I'm in manual, I want to be able to adjust only aperture and shutter speed; why would I want to pull a third dial into the mix? And...which parameter would the EC adjustment change? Would it change the aperture or would it change the shutter speed, and how would you direct it to tweak one or the other? Guess I should read more about it...but KISS is guiding my thought my thought process.
     
  17. Ray Sachs

    Ray Sachs FujiXspot Veteran

    485
    Feb 1, 2013
    Near Philadephila
    If you're not using auto ISO, then it works exactly how you say. If you want a slightly positive or a slightly negative exposure, you simply adjust the aperture or shutter speed without a compensating adjustment to the other and you're effectively dialing the exposure up or down. BUT, when you have auto ISO turned on, the ISO will automatically adjust to bring the exposure back to zero. So if you raise the shutter speed a stop for a negative impact on exposure, the ISO will just jump a stop to bring it back to neutral. This is not what you want! So, if you want the freedom to adjust BOTH shutter speed and aperture and let the auto ISO float to assure proper exposure, you ALSO need the exposure comp adjustment to work to end up with a plus or minus exposure if that's what you're trying to dial in.

    BTW, this is an issue we only get to think about with these sensors that are so insanely good at high ISO that we have enough stops of ISO compensation to allow the ISO to float, to essentially create an aperture / shutter speed priority mode. For some types of photography you really need to have the right mix of both shutter speed and aperture and letting the ISO assure proper exposure is a huge convenience for some.

    -Ray
     
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  18. crsnydertx

    crsnydertx FujiXspot Regular Subscribing Member

    94
    Feb 4, 2013
    Houston, TX
    Chuck
    Ray, thanks. Makes sense. One remaining question, though: in the Auto ISO case, which parameter (aperture, shutter speed, or ISO) gets adjusted by manipulating the exposure compensation dial? I'm guessing it would be ISO; otherwise, you wouldn't be maintaining your desired combination of aperture and shutter speed...?
     
  19. Ray Sachs

    Ray Sachs FujiXspot Veteran

    485
    Feb 1, 2013
    Near Philadephila
    Yeah, exactly. ISO is always the primary parameter that will be adjusted in any auto-ISO setting, with shutter speed a secondary adjustment in aperture priority, and aperture the secondary adjustment in shutter priority. In manual (or perhaps better named shutter+aperture priority), ISO becomes the only parameter to adjust.

    This can work really well for street photography because a) aperture can be critical for zone focus or hyperfocal setups, b) shutter is critical for stopping action or blurring motion, and c) low ISO image quality is not as critical as in other types of shooting. I think Don (Streetshooter) used to use this approach a lot with his Ricoh GXR when he used to shoot with that. I tend to prefer using aperture priority with manual ISO, keeping an eye on shutter speed, and just adjust ISO when shutter speeds started getting problematic. If I was using manual with auto-ISO (and exposure comp), I'd be keeping an eye on ISO all the time and adjusting shutter speed when needed. But since there's a much wider range of workable shutter speeds than workable ISO settings, it seems easier and less labor intensive to do it the way I currently do. But once we have sensors that are clean up to 25,600 or 51,200, maybe I'll change my approach. :cool:

    -Ray
     
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  20. Jun

    Jun New to FujiXspot

    1
    Mar 17, 2013
    It's not Manual Mode, it's a new mode -- ISO Priority

    People are wanting to use Manual mode, but with Auto ISO. It becomes a new auto exposure mode, ISO Priority where they set the aperture and shutter and the camera controls the ISO. But the problem is that with the Exposure Adjustment Dial disabled, they can't vary the exposure from what the camera has selected as then can with other auto modes other than by disabling Auto ISO.

    It's true that normally in full manual mode, with manually set ISO, you wouldn't need the Exposure Adjustment Dial, but not when using this ISO Priority Mode.